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Traffic calming measures like speed bumps and chicanes do nothing to either slow traffic or improve traffic flow.
For your information there are already closed blocks and pedestrian only blocks on the far east side of midtown. Your other issue is that you have effectively blocked off the route between the Lincoln Tunnel and the Midtown Tunnel.
One thing that should really be brought in to New York is proper phasing of traffic lights such that pedestrians don't jaywalk across the lights and vehicles don't have to compete to get through against pedestrians. Either a walk only and then a turn only signal would greatly improve pedestrian safety and traffic flow.
Creating a slow zone, you want to effect as large an area as possible with defined boundaries. It's a recognizable boundary for drivers.
This area is much to small to impeed traffic. As it stands, if your not stuck in Midtown gridlock, your foot is too the floor past these points of congestion. My suggestions are aggressive but honestly realistic. Drivers will benefit from more organized traffic flows and less accidents. Congestion pricing would reduce the amount of vehicles in Midtown too.
Making a blanket declaration that a quiet residential area is part of a business district, and subject to restrictions and congestion pricing is not realistic. As for a border, the avenues could just as easily be used as descriptors of the zone.
Congestion pricing will only reduce the marginal traffic, just as higher fuel prices are inelastic with regard to attempting to influence behavior when the operator is above a subsistence level. It will be a higher cost of doing business, for suppliers, for delivery trucks, car services, etc. that can easily inflate business costs within a localized zone, making companies look to relocate to areas in the region that offer better access and lower cost of business. Why would I keep an office open in Midtown that costs me 20% more to operate than any other area in the region? Tourists do not drive the economy of Midtown, nor do people lounging in pedestrianized streets or piazzas.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
Traffic calming measures like speed bumps and chicanes do nothing to either slow traffic or improve traffic flow.
For your information there are already closed blocks and pedestrian only blocks on the far east side of midtown. Your other issue is that you have effectively blocked off the route between the Lincoln Tunnel and the Midtown Tunnel.
One thing that should really be brought in to New York is proper phasing of traffic lights such that pedestrians don't jaywalk across the lights and vehicles don't have to compete to get through against pedestrians. Either a walk only and then a turn only signal would greatly improve pedestrian safety and traffic flow.
If you place 3 speed bumps in a row, evenly spaced, on a side street I guarantee that automobiles will slow down along that street.
The route between the Lincoln Tunnel and Midtown Tunnel isn't blocked, it's just going to take longer to arrive at your destination. 1.5 miles at roughly 15 MPH. Shouldn't be an issue though. If you want to speed, take the GWB to the Cross Bronx, you shouldn't encounter any foot traffic along that route.
There's even the likelyhood that with better traffic calming you can drive around Midtown at an average pace. As it is now, you'll see 5 cars squeezed across at an intersection trying to race to the next light on Avenues. This causes a lot of road confusion and collisions, people getting cut off. With 2 marked, narrow lanes, this disappears.
The whole point is this, you don't prioritize automobiles in Midtown. You prioritize pedestrians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwguydc
Making a blanket declaration that a quiet residential area is part of a business district, and subject to restrictions and congestion pricing is not realistic. As for a border, the avenues could just as easily be used as descriptors of the zone.
Congestion pricing will only reduce the marginal traffic, just as higher fuel prices are inelastic with regard to attempting to influence behavior when the operator is above a subsistence level. It will be a higher cost of doing business, for suppliers, for delivery trucks, car services, etc. that can easily inflate business costs within a localized zone, making companies look to relocate to areas in the region that offer better access and lower cost of business. Why would I keep an office open in Midtown that costs me 20% more to operate than any other area in the region? Tourists do not drive the economy of Midtown, nor do people lounging in pedestrianized streets or piazzas.
I am not including those area in the CBD for business purpose, i'm include those areas for traffic calming measures. River to river is pretty strong marker of a Slow Zone. Those communities will benefit and the CBD is definitely pushing West and will line the Hudson River in a few years with the completion of Atlantic Yards, Manhattan West, and other towers.
You'll need to provide me more information as to how much time is being lost by businesses. I highly doubt a 15 MPH speed limit in a 4 Sq Mi area is going to have barely any effect on business. In fact, during business hour traffic, I wouldn't be surprised if large trucks averaged sub 10 MPH in this area on average due to traffic. Small vehicles speed along less congested streets and try to burn lights but stall at intersections and congested major streets.
Businesses are not going to leave Midtown just because a Slow Zone is enacted to help reduce pedestrian fatalities, collisions or congestion pricing to reduce traffic congestion. London has more aggressive calming then NYC and Congestion Pricing with none of the problems you describe.
Last edited by nykiddo718718; 04-23-2013 at 01:57 PM..
You'll need to provide me more information as to how much time is being lost by businesses. I highly doubt a 15 MPH speed limit in a 4 Sq Mi area is going to have barely any effect on business. In fact, during business hour traffic, I wouldn't be surprised if large trucks averaged sub 10 MPH in this area on average due to traffic. Small vehicles speed along less congested streets and try to burn lights but stall at intersections and congested major streets.
Businesses are not going to leave Midtown just because a Slow Zone is enacted to help reduce pedestrian fatalities, collisions or congestion pricing to reduce traffic congestion. London has more aggressive calming then NYC and Congestion Pricing with none of the problems you describe.
You have proposed much more than a slow zone. Eliminating one lane per avenue in the district would in effect remove two avenues from service per side of the park. That will create a bottleneck at the point where the lanes converge above and below the proposed borders. Adding to that half block stoplights that will reduce the efficiency (or current lack thereof) of side street traffic flow, and you will have a recipe for gridlock. The avenues would be strangled getting to Midtown with reduced lanes, backing up traffic on the bridges and tunnels, and causing traffic problems in areas on the UES and UWS, lengthening trips to, or through Midtown. And, with side street mid block lights, anyone attempting to drive crosstown will not be able to move, until the side street reaches capacity, and then the avenues start to have turn lanes blocked, further reducing available roadways to effectively one lane. With 34th Street out of the equation as well, a major E-W route is closed to traffic, with no bypass capability, further impeding the free flow of traffic.
It's not about the speed limit as you seemed to make reference to my issue in the above quote, but the overall issue, including extending calming measures to neighborhoods that really don't need it, especially since by definition they would be subject to congestion pricing in your proposal. The potential for gridlock is the issue.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
Manhattan would be much more pleasant if it weren't filled with a rumble of traffic. Most of the residential areas (Upper East and West sides) are similar. Deliveries are important, but the rest of the car traffic seems to be mainly detrimental.
You have proposed much more than a slow zone. Eliminating one lane per avenue in the district would in effect remove two avenues from service per side of the park. That will create a bottleneck at the point where the lanes converge above and below the proposed borders. Adding to that half block stoplights that will reduce the efficiency (or current lack thereof) of side street traffic flow, and you will have a recipe for gridlock. The avenues would be strangled getting to Midtown with reduced lanes, backing up traffic on the bridges and tunnels, and causing traffic problems in areas on the UES and UWS, lengthening trips to, or through Midtown. And, with side street mid block lights, anyone attempting to drive crosstown will not be able to move, until the side street reaches capacity, and then the avenues start to have turn lanes blocked, further reducing available roadways to effectively one lane. With 34th Street out of the equation as well, a major E-W route is closed to traffic, with no bypass capability, further impeding the free flow of traffic.
It's not about the speed limit as you seemed to make reference to my issue in the above quote, but the overall issue, including extending calming measures to neighborhoods that really don't need it, especially since by definition they would be subject to congestion pricing in your proposal. The potential for gridlock is the issue.
Combine congestion pricing with lane reductions and you have a recipe for traffic reduction. I primarily suggest lane reductions to prevent constant lane changing which encourages speeding and wreckless driving. The lack of order on our streets only makes congestion worse.
The point here is to make driving unpleasant in the largest CBD in town. Most people should avoid driving in Midtown at all cost. Those that have to will benefit from the reduced congestion. The slow speeds shouldn't make much of a difference in such a small area.
Still waiting for alternatives. 15,000 pedestrians were injured by motor vehicles in NYC last year. That's a problem and the traffic calming is needed citywide. Midtown especially with it's extreme pedestrian density has a lot to gain from an aggressive slow zone.
I know this is a large, diverse area we are talking and a one size fits all approach will not solve our problems. Let's adjust.
The whole point is this, you don't prioritize automobiles in Midtown. You prioritize pedestrians.
Actually in any living city the point is to allow all transportation to coexist. Don't prioritize any transportation but design a network that respects all.
If you place 3 speed bumps in a row, evenly spaced, on a side street I guarantee that automobiles will slow down along that street.
Traffic is a hopeless CRAWL along midtown side streets. Any plan is clutter them with speed bumps is just plain siliness. Most drivers would KILL to be able to move 15 mph across town.
The reason there are no speed bumps in Manhattan is that everyone long ago recognized their pointlessness and shear inconvenience.
(Have you ever seen a snow plow tear out a speed bump? I have.)
Traffic is a hopeless CRAWL along midtown side streets. Any plan is clutter them with speed bumps is just plain siliness. Most drivers would KILL to be able to move 15 mph across town.
The reason there are no speed bumps in Manhattan is that everyone long ago recognized their pointlessness and shear inconvenience.
(Have you ever seen a snow plow tear out a speed bump? I have.)
The speed bumps are to prevent people from picking up high speeds on the side streets. The other day I almost saw a car heading East bound almost plow through a group of pedestrians crossing along Park Ave in the 40s. He gunned it as the light was about to change. A regular occurrence.
There are speed bumps in Manhattan, in fact Inwood is already a slow zone with numerous scattered about. I have never heard of a plow being unable to clear a speed bump either. That's a poor excuse for safety.
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