When did little italy stop being italian (Ridge: lease, suburbs)

[Concept]

mid 80's it began changing alot. there were still hold outs til the early 90's, but they eventually left too.

as far as size, i remember it being from canal stretching to houston.

[Moth]

Originally Posted by NJ Chutzpah

What was it like in the 1970's?

Basically the way Chinatown is now; a real and thriving neighborhood rather than remnants. Its the way of New York. Yorkville used to be very German with strong Czeck and Hungarian communities as well. Now there are but a few leftovers.

Rent the movie, "Mean Streets" as it was filme around Little Italy at or near its peak. It will give you the best preserved glimpse that I can think of.

[NJ Chutzpah]

Did the italians abandon it or was it taken from them?

[MoreDudley]

like Italian Brooklyn, Queens... little Italy was no match for a much more organized community. infact, take a trip down to the original Italy, Big Italy; you will notice the same trend.

YouTube - Milan, Italy - after the Chinese riot

[roseba]

Originally Posted by Moth

I reckon the "demise", if you would really call it that, of all Little Italys, began around 1965 when immigration laws began to favor non-European immigrants. And I would also say that this was the time when Italy's post war recovery was set in stone and the country took its place as a wealthy democracy. The end result was less Italians feeling the need or being able to come to the USA. Furthermore, those that had been in the USA for awhile felt the lure of the suburbs that is part of assimilation. Thus, less Italians for Little Italy.

Compare this to China, a huge nation that has an endless supply of potential immigrants.

So its not so much a demise as simply a step in the order of things.

Most NY Italians came to NY before WWII. That is why they don't speak a language that resembles Italian. Most of them think it's Italian, but it is really a dialec, that in turn has been bastardized by living in America for a half of a century or more.

The unification of language in Italy occurred after WWII when standard Italian, (Florentine) became the lingua franca in their public school system, and, when compulsary education became the standard.

[mead]

I think there's still a good number of Italian people who are middle aged (40s/50s) in this area however I rarely (or more like never) see any young Italian immigrants in NYC who are in their 20s or 30s.

Originally Posted by roseba

Most NY Italians came to NY before WWII. That is why they don't speak a language that resembles Italian. Most of them think it's Italian, but it is really a dialec, that in turn has been bastardized by living in America for a half of a century or more.

The unification of language in Italy occurred after WWII when standard Italian, (Florentine) became the lingua franca in their public school system, and, when compulsary education became the standard.

[roseba]

Originally Posted by mead

I think there's still a good number of Italian people who are middle aged (40s/50s) in this area however I rarely (or more like never) see any young Italian immigrants in NYC who are in their 20s or 30s.

That would be a little younger than my parents. Most of the NY Italian immigrants, are far older than that.

[NJ Chutzpah]

Originally Posted by Concept

mid 80's it began changing alot. there were still hold outs til the early 90's, but they eventually left too.

as far as size, i remember it being from canal stretching to houston.

So did Soho used to be a part of little italy?

[718bound]

Originally Posted by NJ Chutzpah

Also what do you think will happen to chinatown in a few years? I have been noticing some new developments that I doubt a poor chinese can afford.

Ah, but it's the rich and powerful Chinese people buying these buildings or renting out apartments knowing they can charge 100-200 a bed times how many bunk beds they can cram in.

[718bound]

Sorry I forgot to add what I think will happen to china town in a few years. In the next 10-20 years I see crowded china town expanding into the outer bouroughs... I mean look at what has happened in places like Bay Ridge and Flushing (although I think Flushingis mostly Korean isn't it?).

Cheaper rent, not as crowded, a Chinese community already in place so people just moving into the area will not feel like outsiders. I see alot of these mom and pop Chinese stores and restaurants catering to the chinese community to move to the outer boroughs as Manhattan lease prices sky rocket. Again cheaper commercial rent and a growing population / ustomer base.