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Old 07-15-2013, 11:58 AM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,886 posts, read 7,896,988 times
Reputation: 3001

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDF View Post
It's the same thing with people on the LA subforum, which is where you want to move isn't it? People talk up LA and how wonderful it is, despite having only been there a few times or never at all.

I think Harlem resident has more issues than simply people talking enthusiastically about a place they don't live.
It is really one "issue," apparently for you and definitely for a few other posters. When people post mis- or half-information, always because they do not live here, or because they do not have sufficient actual information to have their "opinion," I correct that - IF, and only IF, I happen to know that something is not true. A great example is the topic under discussion here. For starters, nobody who has not struggled with the MTA on a daily basis in an attempt to commune to work should post about this topic. That's because only those people have sufficient experience to develop credible opinions.

Lack of experience should not be confused with differing opinions, which certainly can exist on a given topic. These differ - very much so.

A further confusion happens when the mis- or half-informer, the person with no actual experience, blames me for their own error(s). The logic is similar to "shooting the messenger," and this tendency is unfortunately a bigger and bigger part of how things work today. At community meetings, how often so much time is wasted discussing "how" people are discussing things and nothing at all is resolved. Someone I know calls this "subject changing," and I think it is an accurate designation.

In summary, you are angry because I pointed out a gap in your "opinion," namely, that nobody thinks much about the bathrooms in the subway - which pointed, implicitly, to the fact that you might not have enough experience ... There was another topic as well, cannot recall now.

Simple as that.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:04 PM
PDF
 
11,386 posts, read 9,959,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
It is really one "issue," apparently for you and definitely for a few other posters. When people post mis- or half-information, always because they do not live here, or because they do not have sufficient actual information to have their "opinion," I correct that - IF, and only IF, I happen to know that something is not true. A great example is the topic under discussion here. For starters, nobody who has not struggled with the MTA on a daily basis in an attempt to commune to work should post about this topic. That's because only those people have sufficient experience to develop credible opinions.

Lack of experience should not be confused with differing opinions, which certainly can exist on a given topic. These differ - very much so.

A further confusion happens when the mis- or half-informer, the person with no actual experience, blames me for their own error(s). The logic is similar to "shooting the messenger," and this tendency is unfortunately a bigger and bigger part of how things work today. At community meetings, how often so much time is wasted discussing "how" people are discussing things and nothing at all is resolved. Someone I know calls this "subject changing," and I think it is an accurate designation.

In summary, you are angry because I pointed out a gap in your "opinion," namely, that nobody thinks much about the bathrooms in the subway - which pointed, implicitly, to the fact that you might not have enough experience ... There was another topic as well, cannot recall now.

Simple as that.
Not angry at all. Just curious where in this thread I posted mis-information? I simply posted my opinion on the NYC subway stations. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with how good the MTA runs the NYC subway, but rather how the stations are kept up aesthetically.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:09 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,886 posts, read 7,896,988 times
Reputation: 3001
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDF View Post
Not angry at all. Just curious where in this thread I posted mis-information? I simply posted my opinion on the NYC subway stations. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with how good the MTA runs the NYC subway, but rather how the stations are kept up aesthetically.
But ... probably 75% of them, likely more, are not at all kept up aesthetically.
This is not a shortcoming you have, people live where they live ! And your point about LA is a valid one. I lived in LA for (give-or-take) months at a time, doing research, but I would NEVER offer an opinion except as a traveler, which I was - "stay at this hotel" or similar.
Or about the busses, which apparently residents do not take. People thought I was a strange and exotic person for doing so.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:12 PM
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11,386 posts, read 9,959,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
But ... probably 75% of them, likely more, are not at all kept up aesthetically.
This is not a shortcoming you have, people live where they live ! And your point about LA is a valid one. I lived in LA for (give-or-take) months at a time, doing research, but I would NEVER offer an opinion except as a traveler, which I was - "stay at this hotel" or similar.
Or about the busses, which apparently residents do not take. People thought I was a strange and exotic person for doing so.
But again, how is my opinion on the NYC subway stations calculated as mis-information? I was not commenting on the service issues of the NYC subway and the MTA and what it's like to take it to work everyday.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:19 PM
 
339 posts, read 561,005 times
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In principle I support unions as they are a bulwark against management greed which, if unchecked, would run rampant. But not with the MTA--I despise the WTU and blame them as much as management for the constant rise in fares. I recently moved to a building where I am juuuuuust close enough to walk to work. I intend to walk as much as possible so I can spare myself the constant aggravation of fighting my way home (and of course to save money since I won't have to buy the unlimited card). Last weekend I was trying to get from Chelsea to Inwood on the A--it took OVER AN HOUR. An hour!! A trip that should've taken at most 45 minutes. No real reason, just drama and garbled announcements and slow trains and bad service. The worst run agency in the city.

Yes, the London system is gorgeous--when I visited London my jaw was hanging open at its cleanliness.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:25 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,886 posts, read 7,896,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDF View Post
But again, how is my opinion on the NYC subway stations calculated as mis-information? I was not commenting on the service issues of the NYC subway and the MTA and what it's like to take it to work everyday.
You posited an alternative opinion to that of people who are clearly residents. I am sure the subway seems "not so bad" to someone who has not ever struggled with the beyond ridiculous service issues (among other things) on a daily basis.

As long as I can recall, people have made the same comments about the subway that you see here - mostly reliability. The comments about corruption and the MTA are also on target, as most (all?) residents know. It is beyond absurd, as many commented, that a world-class city has such decrepit and unreliable service.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:28 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,886 posts, read 7,896,988 times
Reputation: 3001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee1995 View Post

Yes, the London system is gorgeous--when I visited London my jaw was hanging open at its cleanliness.
The other day, at 59th/Columbus, a woman with several small children in tow tossed a McDonald's bag onto the platform just as the doors closed. I had not seen that for a while.

So ... in order to maintain cleanliness, we would need some sort of social contract is my guess.

The A train is terrible every weekend now, up and down.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:41 PM
PDF
 
11,386 posts, read 9,959,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
You posited an alternative opinion to that of people who are clearly residents. I am sure the subway seems "not so bad" to someone who has not ever struggled with the beyond ridiculous service issues (among other things) on a daily basis.

As long as I can recall, people have made the same comments about the subway that you see here - mostly reliability. The comments about corruption and the MTA are also on target, as most (all?) residents know. It is beyond absurd, as many commented, that a world-class city has such decrepit and unreliable service.
No, I never posted anything about the service issues. I did post saying I've spent an entire summer in NYC and the no A/C did not bother me to an extreme level. And I was commenting mainly on how the stations look, something you fail to understand. Never once did I say the subway was not-so-bad as far as commuting on it went. The point of the OP never called the service issues into question, other than why the MTA won't pony up for station upgrades.

Let's just stop.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:51 PM
 
2,721 posts, read 2,167,580 times
Reputation: 4042
You have competing interests amongst ridership. Many people, and I'd guess the majority, would prefer ridership costing as low as possible, despite it meaning deplorable conditions. I would prefer to pay a bit more, and have the subways upgraded to provide at least human like conditions.

But as many people have pointed out the corruption, if prices were raised to $3.50 a ride tomorrow, would it even translate to any improvements?
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:58 PM
 
2,853 posts, read 6,297,316 times
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Do we think that banning food in the subway would make a difference? In DC for example you can be fined.

In a previous thread I recall people argued that their commute was the only possible time in their day to eat....
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