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Old 08-03-2013, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale View Post
Anywhere west of Broadway Junction on the L, A or J lines your in Manhattan within 30 mins, 20 mins on a good day. Within 50 mins you can get to Woodhaven blvd on the A or J. Not saying you'll see movement that far east, just that its not all that long of a commute.
Train ride from Beach 60th Street to Chambers Street for me is 53 minutes.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Train ride from Beach 60th Street to Chambers Street for me is 53 minutes.
On, a good day, if you get on the train during rush hours.

Of course, there's weekends and nights, with construction times, not counting how long you have to wait for the A train. Plus the A train runs local at nights.

Basically it can take two hours to get from the Rockaways to Manhattan, and I'm noting Chambers street is just the first stop in Manhattan. What if you have to transfer to another train?

As for Broadway Junction, again, you have the same things. Young people tend to like to go places nights and weekends. There's no way you're getting to Broadway Junction in 30 minutes on the A local, (keeping in mind its one train every 20 minutes). And while you can cab it home easily to Williamsburg, Broadway Junction is a bit far for a cab. Not as far as the Rockaways, but FAR ENOUGH).

Brownsville will likely NEVER be what Williamsburg is today. Its just too far out . It doesn't mean you can't get stray broke hipsters out there, but NYCHA is not going anywhere, and its not magically getting closer to the hotspots in town.

And its not all about distance . South Bronx is not too far from Midtown, yet it remains as ghetto as ever and full of housing projects.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:47 PM
 
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jad2k View Post
Brownstones were never built "for" the poor. Tenements were for the poor. Brownstones were built for the middle (really "upper" middle class) in the 1800 and early 1900s.

Closing Bell: The History of Bed Stuy | Brownstoner

If you've ever been inside an untouched one, you'll see that it's very ornately appointed with lots of marble, mahogany, and just general opulence. Kind of like the decor you'd find in the mansions of the super wealthy but on a smaller scale. I'd equate them with housing for your business class- the ones that do well and can live in some luxury but wouldn't be considered Vanderbilt rich. Much in the same way that condos go up that price out poorer people but those making in the $150-$300K range, it's just the right fit.

And G-Dale has a point, it's come back around to that. The people gentrifying are much like a middle class as crazy as it seems. They can't afford wealthier BK neighborhoods where homes are $3MM + so they spend $1MM on a Brownstone or Limestone in BedStuy, Crown Heights, etc
The only reason why former rich hoods became ghetto and cheap to live in
in the first place was only because of demographics and disinvestment by
the upper class who socalled used to live there. The present owners are
not all totally struggling to pay the bills anyway.
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Old 08-04-2013, 01:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP View Post
The only reason why former rich hoods became ghetto and cheap to live in
in the first place was only because of demographics and disinvestment by
the upper class who socalled used to live there. The present owners are
not all totally struggling to pay the bills anyway.
You had white flight. Around the time of mayor John Lindsay, the city lost one million jobs (serious institutional investment), which contributed to white flight. To really reduce the poverty that's still around in big parts of Brooklyn, downtown Brooklyn has a long way to go in its development as a job center (its come a long way, but its nowhere NEAR enough).
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Bronx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Its also decently FAR from WORK centers. Not so say an occasional stray can't end up there ,but in generally I totally agree with you.

The thing is, gentrification is not necessarily permanent. The city was roaring during the 20s, horrible during the 30s, came back during WW2-the 50s, and crashed in the 70s, and was down till the early 90s. So all that means is that the city's economy's is cyclical. It will go down and hot neighborhoods will be not again. Its not a matter of if, its a matter of when. Things will be bad for awhile, and eventually they'll come back (aslo a question of WHEN, not IF).
This sounds just like my neighborhood Mott Haven. Which had its ups and downs historically.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:42 AM
 
9,923 posts, read 7,687,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
...Basically it can take two hours to get from the Rockaways to Manhattan, and I'm noting Chambers street is just the first stop in Manhattan. What if you have to transfer to another train?

As for Broadway Junction, again, you have the same things. Young people tend to like to go places nights and weekends. There's no way you're getting to Broadway Junction in 30 minutes on the A local, (keeping in mind its one train every 20 minutes). And while you can cab it home easily to Williamsburg, Broadway Junction is a bit far for a cab. Not as far as the Rockaways, but FAR ENOUGH).

Brownsville will likely NEVER be what Williamsburg is today. Its just too far out . It doesn't mean you can't get stray broke hipsters out there, but NYCHA is not going anywhere, and its not magically getting closer to the hotspots in town.

And its not all about distance . South Bronx is not too far from Midtown, yet it remains as ghetto as ever and full of housing projects.
Chambers is the second stop in Manhattan, Fulton being the first. Car service from the junction to Union Square is $18, which isn't too bad if splitting with a group of friends. Out in eastern Brooklyn, it is a lot easier to have a car, further relieving any added transportation difficulties from being too far away. Brownsville will not gentrify because much of it was originally constructed for the poor, not because it is too far away. No one really thinks Brownsville would ever gentrify anyway, was never brought up on this tread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Train ride from Beach 60th Street to Chambers Street for me is 53 minutes.
Takes me 45 mins, door-to-door from around the Fulton stop to get to Ridgewood and I'm transferring at Broadway Junction. I find Broadway Junction to be a very convenient transportation hub with its subway transfer options, the LIRR being close by and the Jackie emptying out right there. The main drawback is all the crazy tracks and street ramps all over the place.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:39 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,128 posts, read 21,745,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale View Post
Meant more so of going from homogenous to homogenous without finding an equilibrium somewhere in between.
I see what you mean. If it's any consolation, Park Slope isn't as racially homogenous as many neighborhoods in Brooklyn. It was 2/3 nonhispanic white and all other categories doing a pretty even split in the 2010 census which doesn't make it that diverse but is much more diverse than most of the recently gentrifying neighborhoods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
I highly doubt gentrification will ever reach Broadway Junction Boulevard. I was there two weeks ago and that place is just as hood as ever, more so than my neighborhood. But overall I do agree that its a watch, wait and see process if the gentrification train can push eastward, maybe we will see Brownsville and ENY receive some sort of spillover.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
On, a good day, if you get on the train during rush hours.

Of course, there's weekends and nights, with construction times, not counting how long you have to wait for the A train. Plus the A train runs local at nights.

Basically it can take two hours to get from the Rockaways to Manhattan, and I'm noting Chambers street is just the first stop in Manhattan. What if you have to transfer to another train?

As for Broadway Junction, again, you have the same things. Young people tend to like to go places nights and weekends. There's no way you're getting to Broadway Junction in 30 minutes on the A local, (keeping in mind its one train every 20 minutes). And while you can cab it home easily to Williamsburg, Broadway Junction is a bit far for a cab. Not as far as the Rockaways, but FAR ENOUGH).

Brownsville will likely NEVER be what Williamsburg is today. Its just too far out . It doesn't mean you can't get stray broke hipsters out there, but NYCHA is not going anywhere, and its not magically getting closer to the hotspots in town.

And its not all about distance . South Bronx is not too far from Midtown, yet it remains as ghetto as ever and full of housing projects.
Broadway Junction getting the gentrification in a decade similar to what we see in Bushwick now doesn't seem that far-fetched to me. It's been working its way down the L and A train, and the J to a lesser extent, for a while now. It's a meeting place of different streams of gentrification which gives it easy access to neighborhoods that are already further down the process.

At that point, the further distance from Manhattan would be tempered by close proximity to other parts of gentrified Brooklyn and a revived downtown Brooklyn. There are already people who live, work, and go out mostly in Williamsburg and Bushwick. If they actually succeed in building more workplaces in North Brooklyn (there's a shortage right now) and other parts of the borough such as downtown Brooklyn, the Navy Yard and the ex-Pfizer building, then that means a lot if people don't have to go that far out from Broadway Junction to get to their workplaces. Even better would be if the city incentivized commercial construction around Broadway Junction itself. It's sort of a waste of a good transit hub (and a potentially great transit hub if the triboro RX ever gets built) right now.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 08-04-2013 at 09:22 AM..
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
19,155 posts, read 32,695,448 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
On, a good day, if you get on the train during rush hours.

Of course, there's weekends and nights, with construction times, not counting how long you have to wait for the A train. Plus the A train runs local at nights.

Basically it can take two hours to get from the Rockaways to Manhattan, and I'm noting Chambers street is just the first stop in Manhattan. What if you have to transfer to another train?

As for Broadway Junction, again, you have the same things. Young people tend to like to go places nights and weekends. There's no way you're getting to Broadway Junction in 30 minutes on the A local, (keeping in mind its one train every 20 minutes). And while you can cab it home easily to Williamsburg, Broadway Junction is a bit far for a cab. Not as far as the Rockaways, but FAR ENOUGH).

Brownsville will likely NEVER be what Williamsburg is today. Its just too far out . It doesn't mean you can't get stray broke hipsters out there, but NYCHA is not going anywhere, and its not magically getting closer to the hotspots in town.

And its not all about distance . South Bronx is not too far from Midtown, yet it remains as ghetto as ever and full of housing projects.
Yeah I get on the train during rush hours. And yeah Chambers Street is the second stop in Manhattan after Fulton Street (formerly Broadway-Nassau). I'm speaking from my personal experience. 53 minutes one way is not bad for me. And as for getting to Broadway Junction during the weekends on the A local, it's about 40 minutes. There's only 3 extra stops that the train makes from Mott Avenue to Broadway-East New York. Well make that 4 now that you can get off at Aqueduct Racetrack for the casino. As of right now, the MTA is not doing any construction work that is currenly impacting A train service in the Rockaways.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:17 PM
 
23,254 posts, read 16,070,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I see what you mean. If it's any consolation, Park Slope isn't as racially homogenous as many neighborhoods in Brooklyn. It was 2/3 nonhispanic white and all other categories doing a pretty even split in the 2010 census which doesn't make it that diverse but is much more diverse than most of the recently gentrifying neighborhoods.





Broadway Junction getting the gentrification in a decade similar to what we see in Bushwick now doesn't seem that far-fetched to me. It's been working its way down the L and A train, and the J to a lesser extent, for a while now. It's a meeting place of different streams of gentrification which gives it easy access to neighborhoods that are already further down the process.

At that point, the further distance from Manhattan would be tempered by close proximity to other parts of gentrified Brooklyn and a revived downtown Brooklyn. There are already people who live, work, and go out mostly in Williamsburg and Bushwick. If they actually succeed in building more workplaces in North Brooklyn (there's a shortage right now) and other parts of the borough such as downtown Brooklyn, the Navy Yard and the ex-Pfizer building, then that means a lot if people don't have to go that far out from Broadway Junction to get to their workplaces. Even better would be if the city incentivized commercial construction around Broadway Junction itself. It's sort of a waste of a good transit hub (and a potentially great transit hub if the triboro RX ever gets built) right now.
Don't even factor the Triboro RX getting built into that, that's just a pipe dream for the forseeable future.

Brownsville currently has the highest concentration of NYCHA properties and is so bad that the post office, Fedex,and UPS often won't deliver to buildings because of safety reasons.

So where will they put the criminal, drug addicted, and mental health element that is DUMPED in government housing in places like Brownsville and East New York? That stuff is going to be in every city, and they have to put them somewhere, for starters.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:37 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,128 posts, read 21,745,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Don't even factor the Triboro RX getting built into that, that's just a pipe dream for the forseeable future.

Brownsville currently has the highest concentration of NYCHA properties and is so bad that the post office, Fedex,and UPS often won't deliver to buildings because of safety reasons.

So where will they put the criminal, drug addicted, and mental health element that is DUMPED in government housing in places like Brownsville and East New York? That stuff is going to be in every city, and they have to put them somewhere, for starters.
Yea, definitely just a pipe dream. Ah well.

I don't think the gentrification is going to push into Brownsville in a decade's time. Brownsville starts below Atlantic Avenue, right? I think the gentrification of Broadway Junction a decade from now is still going to stick mostly within a few blocks of the station itself as well as along the stations that are further west. Most of the gentrification is probably going to be (what's mostly referred to as Stuyvesant Heights). I don't think it's going to reach into the stations further out from Broadway Junction save for maybe the J line. I definitely don't think we're going to be gentrifying the projects themselves anytime soon.
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