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Old 07-22-2013, 10:13 PM
 
2,228 posts, read 2,955,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
I wont' get into regulation/dereg, but I would like to know from you why haven't Prez and Eric Holder put these banksters in jail? What the hell did I pitch my tent for? Pls try to explain it without fire-breathing hurling insults, and trying to chew my head off. I think you made Norwood check in to a trauma center.




I think you need to look at the numbers, plus read some history, and realize that no one is exempt from the laws of math, NYC included. Maybe then you'll understand the true meaning of "asinine."
Thanks for the concern Henry but I'm ok. Just have to SMH at some of the statements made on this board. A ton of problems in Detroit but putting blame on Wall Street is plane ludicrous.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
I think you need to look at the numbers, plus read some history, and realize that no one is exempt from the laws of math, NYC included. Maybe then you'll understand the true meaning of "asinine."
NYC is on par with London, Paris, and Tokyo. I guess those cities will become like Detroit too?

Like I said NYC is a world-class city and will always have so much more to offer. Detroit is no different than typical middle America city. Detroit never offered and never will offer diverse cultural amenities, top universities, and hip, urban lifestyle you'll find in NYC. As for economics, the only big industry in Detroit was the American automobile, which was depressed for years because most American cars were poorer quality than foreign cars until recently. NYC had and always will have a way more diversified economy than Detroit. Just because Wall Street has problems doesn't mean NYC is going to become like Detroit. People can easily stop buying American made cars, but they can't stop using the banks, despite the Wall Street corruption. The middle class is shrinking and struggling everywhere, not just NYC. Wall Street is actually far from being the largest employer in NYC, unlike the automobile industry in Detroit which you don't seem to be taking into consideration with your "laws of math."

As I said the weather is awful in Detroit. Gray, overcast skies 8-9 months of the year with frigid temperatures and ugly scenery consisting of leafless, naked trees and dirty snow..no thanks! When Americans became more mobile in the 1970s, people from Detroit and other rustbelt cities realized that their hometown weather is crap compared to the rest US. I don't blame them. The weather alone will scare anyone away from Detroit.

Last edited by ThinkingElsewhere; 07-22-2013 at 11:23 PM..
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:15 PM
 
2,228 posts, read 2,955,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
NYC is on par with London, Paris, and Tokyo. I guess those cities will become like Detroit too?

Like I said NYC is a world-class city and will always have much more to offer. Detroit is no different than typical middle America city. The only big industry in Detroit was the American automobile, which was depressed for years because most American cars were poorer quality than foreign cars until recently. NYC had and always will have a way more diversified economy than Detroit. Just because Wall Street has problems doesn't mean NYC is going to become like Detroit. The middle class is shrinking and struggling everywhere, not just NYC. Wall Street is actually far from being the largest employer in NYC, unlike the automobile industry in Detroit which you don't seem to be taking into consideration with your "laws of math."

As I said the weather is awful in Detroit. Gray, overcast skies 8-9 months of the year with frigid temperatures and ugly scenery consisting of leafless, naked trees and dirty snow..no thanks! When Americans became more mobile in the 1970s, people from Detroit and other rustbelt cities realized that there weather is crap compared to the US. I don't blame them. The weather alone will scare anyone away from Detroit.
What effect do you think the riots had on people fleeing detroit? BTW I agree with your post 100%. Truth be told I'm in the process of buying a new auto. My buddy the car mechanic just says before I can get a sentence out, Honda, Honda , Honda. He says I rather have a beer with you at a bbq or see you at a social function then you coming here getting your car repaired. BTW a lot of the Hondas are actually assembled in the South.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Bronx
14,899 posts, read 17,467,116 times
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Originally Posted by Norwood Boy View Post
, Wow! Let's see it's Wall Streets fault that no one buys 2/3 cars produced in Deadtroit? Make a better product and people will buy it. Get off knees in front of Rachel maddow or Chris Matthews and get a clue. Detroit has no one to blame but THEMSELVES. They spend 100 MILLION more than they take in and now demand the federal government to bail them out? The cell phone thing is totally relevant. It's the ideology of this current country and YOU. I can't afford a cell phone so the govt. should give me a free one? WTF already go use a pay phone or a landline. Ballots For Bailouts: Detroit City Council Member Demand “Quid Pro Quo” From Obama | JONATHAN TURLEY
Part of it its Wall Streets fault, but not all of it. Don't get me wrong big 3 stocks are traded on Wall Street but its not investors fault that people are not investing their money on the big 3. Detroit was to self reliant on the auto industry, however manufacturing jobs have been on the decline ever since the Opec oil Embargo in 1973 which triggered problems for America which still can be felt to this day which caused runaway inflation and the price for gas always went up since then driving up the prices of commodities, healthcare cost, etc, of course this will lead to a slow gradual decline of cars, as well as forcing auto makers and other industrial manufacturing jobs to close up shop and move plants to the South or other parts of the world. All of this is going to force Detroit middle class fleeing for greener pastures with it its tax base, remember NYC in 1976?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
What is with all these threads comparing saying that every other city in the US is going to be the next Detroit?! Nothing can be the next Detroit, we learned from that years ago. NYC has a higher GDP than most states with world class finance, marketing, fashion, arts, and medical care industry..can't say the same about Detroit. Plus Detroit has the worst weather in the US with gray, overcast, dismal, depressing, frigid winters. NYC winters are sunnier and have milder temperatures.

Is NYC perfect with no social and economic problems? No, but every city in this world has some kind of social and economic problems. It's completely asinine to say that NYC will be the next Detroit because of the reasons I listed.
I agree with Norwood, you need to do some researching and read some history before you open your mouth on anything. NYC middle care industry is not the best or greatest, hell you have hospitals who closed up shop since the rescession hit due to the rising cost of health care and treatment of uninsured patients. What does weather have to do with anything about the health of a cities economy? I hope you know that NYC had a situation like Detroit has had back in the 1970s and even the feds told NYC to drop dead. Back then in NYC the cities economy shifted from Manfacturing and processing into information and service, manufacturing jobs either moved down south or outside of the city in the suburbs. Also the cities population dropped due to white flight who were primarily part of the middle class, these folks took their tax dollars to near by counties. Even todays NYC has some trouble, the city has a ballooning debt which can pop, pensions have to be paid, workers health insurance, schools need money, a broken public housing system with 400k costing in billions to fix NYCHA, neglected roads in favor of bike lanes. Retirees not investing in NYC and taking their money to the south, also there is a declining middle class in the city probably on par with the white flight of the 1970s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale View Post
Had more to do with their cars sucking and looking ugly. Simple as that. I had no problem financing my non-American car with no money down during the middle of a recession. I wouldn't blame the bank if they rejected my application to finance a gas guzzling tahoe or suburban, I'd thank them afterwards.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. It had to do with efficiency of the car. I like the way and look of American cars. Problem is that national automakers cars suck to much gas per gallon. Another problem for todays automakers is appealing to the hipster/yuppie yoga, apple iphone holding, college degree waving, organic granola eating, back to the city dweller who comes from the suburbs. GMC is having a tough time to appeal to the millennial crowd especially since drive license rates have declined in recent years. If GMC fails to attract new customers they will be in trouble again. If you notice some commercials these days, even auto commericals they will play some sort of hipster tune to attract millennials into would be drivers. I'm not sure if it has worked out yet. Maybe using organic or biodegradable gas car will sell like hotcakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastBoundandDownChick View Post
How is Wall Street responsible? If it weren't for the totally destructive, unregulated winner-takes-all atmosphere that led to our crash back in 2008 the Big 3 wouldn't have needed help. The reason why they got in such trouble was because no one could finance a car through the BANKS, who were so grossly deregulated that criminal activity went unchecked.. It was about a lack of access to CREDIT and FINANCING, you know... the things businesses traditionally rely upon as well as car buyers. Thank you for making me aware two of the three automakers almost went bust. Like it was some sort of news/realization to someone who has half their family in the auto industry and originates from there. Who are you, what the hell do you know?? What the hell does drug abuse or alcoholism have to do with an elderly woman who played it straight her whole life? Wow, you sound like you are completely naive. Also racist. The cell phone thing was irrelevant. You completely missed the point. Go back to your bubble and watch some Faux News. You know nothing, ignore the facts, and then spew a bunch of idiotic nonsense. I guess that makes you a typical American.
Wall Street is responsible but also they are not. Banks and creditors should have not loan money to people who could not afford cars, but these folks got a loan any way. Why are people on welfare being approaved by creditors for a car? Problems for Detroit and the Midwest started to appear in the 70s during the opec oil crises where Opec had an oil embargo on America, I was not alive them but I read about it, it caused prices to go up and still has ever since. This was the beginning of Detroits problems. America auto makers would not bounce back in the 1980s but by then the damage has been done, auto makers probably began moving factories to the south and those that make parts started building factories overseas forcing many in the Midwest to become unemployed. It only gets worse from there. GMC paid more for workers health insurance than they did for steel to build cars. Than you have Reagan who signed economic deals with other countries and then later Clinton who signed up on Nafta, Gafta, Lafta Asean, which sealed the fate of America and all of the Midwest which depends on manufacturing. Rising gas prices again thanks to China and India, lets not forget that your kind of people want to live in big cities like NYC and SF with back to the city movement. Automakers are having a tough time to cater to millennials on buying cars. Most cant even afford a car anyway since many have debt from college tuition fees. Overall the decline of Detroit is the decline of America itself and the potential powers that be such as China, Russia, India and Brazil are taking notice on Americas decline.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EastBoundandDownChick View Post
No one is saying their government didn't spend beyond its means. That's obvious. What I'm trying to say is there is human fallout and people living in conditions that should not be considered acceptable in an industrialized nation. No one cares because they are black. I am white btw. And am firmly convicted in my belief, and that we live in a horrible world where we must now fend for ourselves. When we have people like those on Wall Street to look up to as role models, is this any real surprise to anyone? We have created a culture of '*********, I've got mine' and total apathy. I am not living in the same America I was raised in.

Your not living in the same part of America you were raised in, your now living in NYC, the capital of douchebag central.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
I agree with Norwood, you need to do some researching and read some history before you open your mouth on anything. NYC middle care industry is not the best or greatest, hell you have hospitals who closed up shop since the rescession hit due to the rising cost of health care and treatment of uninsured patients. What does weather have to do with anything about the health of a cities economy? I hope you know that NYC had a situation like Detroit has had back in the 1970s and even the feds told NYC to drop dead. Back then in NYC the cities economy shifted from Manfacturing and processing into information and service, manufacturing jobs either moved down south or outside of the city in the suburbs. Also the cities population dropped due to white flight who were primarily part of the middle class, these folks took their tax dollars to near by counties. Even todays NYC has some trouble, the city has a ballooning debt which can pop, pensions have to be paid, workers health insurance, schools need money, a broken public housing system with 400k costing in billions to fix NYCHA, neglected roads in favor of bike lanes. Retirees not investing in NYC and taking their money to the south, also there is a declining middle class in the city probably on par with the white flight of the 1970s.
Not much manufacturing going on in the south anymore, it's mostly overseas in China, India, and Southeast Asia. The US is now an information economy, not an industrial economy. Manufacturing jobs in the suburbs? such as Long Island, Westchester, NJ, and CT having tons of manufacturing jobs? Absolutely not. In fact, Long Island has hardly any good private sector jobs, younger people from there are moving back to NYC for better job opportunities and more interesting lifestyle.

White flight? This isn't the 1960s and 1970s anymore. Young professionals are gradually moving back to cities, especially in NYC which will have positive social effects in the near future. Just because not all of NYC is like the Upper East Side, Forest Hills, or Soho doesn't mean it's a neglected dump.

Denver, Seattle, Dallas, Phoenix, Portland, DC, Houston, Philly, Baltimore have far more debt than NYC. Denver: Top 10 Cities With the Most Debt - US News & World Report Most urban school districts have problems. Las Vegas, Oklahoma City, Billings, Phoenix, Fresno, San Antonio schools are lower ranked than NYC schools, pretty sure LA and Miami are ranked worse too. Worst Cities for Education in America - 2012

Pensions and worker health insurance are financial problem throughout all of New York State, not just NYC.

Retirees prefer warm weather and a more relaxed environment. Unless they can't be without hustle and bustle or unique cultural amenities, retirees don't prefer living in NYC if they don't have to. The flee of retirees to the south is not unique to NYC but for all northern US states. Most people from the Northeast retire to the south, people from the Upper Midwest and Pacific Northwest retire to Arizona.

Weather and natural landscape have a lot to do with a city, particularly for a mediocre/medium sized city. People move to places like San Diego, Tampa, Denver, Seattle, Raleigh for sunny weather and/or outdoor recreation (sub-tropical beaches and beautiful, tall mountains). Nobody is willing move to a gray, dismal freezer like Detroit and Buffalo unless they have to.

No matter what you say or think NYC will never be like Detroit. It's one thing to acknowledge the problems, but to say NYC is doomed like Detroit is ludicrous.

Last edited by ThinkingElsewhere; 07-23-2013 at 12:14 AM..
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Bronx
14,899 posts, read 17,467,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
Not much manufacturing going on in the south anymore, it's mostly overseas in China, India, and Southeast Asia. The US is now an information society, not an industrial society. Manufacturing jobs in the suburbs? Yeah Long Island, Westchester, NJ, and CT have tons of manufacturing jobs..NOT. Long Island has hardly any good private sector jobs, younger people from there are moving back to NYC for better job opportunities and more interesting lifestyle.

White flight?! This isn't the 1960s and 1970s anymore. Young professionals are gradually moving back to cities, especially in NYC which will have positive social effects in the near future. Just because not all of NYC is like the Upper East Side, Forest Hills, or Soho doesn't mean it's a neglected dump.

Denver, Seattle, Dallas, Phoenix, Portland, DC, Houston, Philly, Baltimore have far more debt than NYC.Denver: Top 10 Cities With the Most Debt - US News & World Report Most urban school districts have problems. Las Vegas, Oklahoma City, Billings, Phoenix, Fresno, San Antionioschools are lower ranked than NYC schools, pretty sure LA and Miami are ranked worse too.http://www.parenting.com/gallery/wor...n-america-2012

Pensions and worker health insurance are financial problem throughout all of New York State, not just NYC.

Retirees prefer warm weather and a more relaxed environment. Unless they can't be without hustle and bustle or unique cultural amenities, retirees don't prefer living in NYC if they don't have to. The flee of retirees to the south is not unique to NYC but for all northern climates. Most people from the Northeast retire to the south, people from the Upper Midwest and Pacific Northwest retire to Arizona.

No matter what you say or think NYC will never be like Detroit. It's one thing to acknowledge the problems and say that change needs to happen, but to say NYC is doomed like Detroit is ludicrous.
I never said it was doomed. Also NYC had a similar situation back in the 70s. NYC would have been doomed 4 years ago if ig wasnt fod the federal bailouts that saved wall street. Also note that big cities like NYC have a declining middle class which is needed for a supportive tax base. But to say NYC will never have a Detroit like scenario is like saying Rome the eternal city will never fall but we all knew how that ended! We dont know what the future holds. Keep sipping the orvanic kool aide.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:16 AM
 
23,276 posts, read 16,124,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
First statement is false. Second statement has no proof to back it up.

Last statement has no bearing in the discussion. You noted Queens as not having been gentrified. Just look at the map and the long affluent areas of northern and central Queens BLOW AWAY the poorer areas combined in terms of square miles, even if you fabricate Elmhurst as a poor neighborhood.

The math is so simple that it's stupid to argue otherwise. Just add up the square mileage of Bayside, Auburndale, North Flushing, Douglaston, Little Neck, Forest Hills, Kew Gardens, Kew Garden Hills, Hillcrest, Rego Park, Fresh Meadows, Astoria and LIC.

Then add the square milage of Jackson Heights, Corona, and all of Elmhurst if you wish.

Which is greater?

Can you comprehend it now? Or maybe there is something about the truth that bothers you.
Dude, you can't prove something like whether or not homes in Elmhurst have multiple families in them by going on a message board like this . Want to know what goes on in Elmhurst and Jackson Heights? Try living, working, or otherwise interacting in those neighborhoods.

You tend to ignore everything you don't like, and whatever, that's your business and your own personal issue.

But repeatedly lying about things don't make them true. I made no comments about Northern Queens, btw, partially because I rarely go to those neighborhoods. Though I will say even in Northern Queens, I've known immigrants and even some poor Americans to rent basements in these places. These people, particularly if they are not working on the books, may not show up in statistics, depending on how the data is collected. But they are there.

The thing is about this board, there are people who will claim every neighborhood in NYC is either well off or about to be gentrified, and in many cases its hogwash or simply people trying to PUMP their favorite areas (especially if they have investments in them).
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:18 AM
 
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Anyone who says such an affair can never happen to NYC have their head so far in the sand it's scary.
Look at the history of the world- nothing is forever, and many signs are pointing to a collapse in this country.

Will all that in mind though, no place can ever become as wretched to the level Detroit is.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:21 AM
 
23,276 posts, read 16,124,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
I never said it was doomed. Also NYC had a similar situation back in the 70s. NYC would have been doomed 4 years ago if ig wasnt fod the federal bailouts that saved wall street. Also note that big cities like NYC have a declining middle class which is needed for a supportive tax base. But to say NYC will never have a Detroit like scenario is like saying Rome the eternal city will never fall but we all knew how that ended! We dont know what the future holds. Keep sipping the orvanic kool aide.
The thing is ,when doing future planning, one must be able to anticipate and assess both positive and negative outcomes. If you've no ability to assess the potential negative outcomes or disaster, you are SCREWED when the inevitable bad stuff happens.

Bad things will always happen everywhere. Its how you deal with them and how you prepare for them that matter.

Bloomberg himself sees the potential disaster from a NYC too dependent upon finance. Its why the city gives out big tax incentives for film, tv, and tech jobs. Its why the city donated 11 acres of land on Roosevelt Island to Cornell for their NYC tech school. Its why the city sold 370 Jay Street to NYU for a school of urban science. They have these initiatives not just because the future is rosy, they see the potential for utter disaster if NYC is totally dependent on finance and on the government funded welfare complex.

So if someone like Bloomberg can admit that the city has certain vulnerabilities (all places do) why on earth do people have go into crazy denial? And btw, Bloomberg himself has mentioned climate change as a major potential threat to NYC (rising ocean levels and increased hurricane activity).
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:35 AM
 
490 posts, read 607,946 times
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Yea, New York was in a deep rut in the 70's and close to bankruptcy but it was still no where close to where Detroit is now. And the entire country would be in one deep hole if Wall Street wasn't bailed out so repeating this tired mantra is ridiculous.

Any city can suffer a major crisis, but there are no signs, as of now that New York is going down the same road as Detroit. Yes, the city has problems but please name another that doesn't.
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