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Old 12-21-2013, 12:39 PM
 
2,677 posts, read 1,689,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
I am not saying it makes sense....it is what it is...it is a couple hundred years of conflict.
That was not hundreds of years of conflict. Yes they have had conflicts with Haiti, but the way you word it is exaggerated.

The so called Haitian "occupation" of the Spanish side of the island lasted only 22 years.

There was no Dominican Republic until 1844.

 
Old 12-21-2013, 12:43 PM
 
8,743 posts, read 18,315,972 times
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This is a good start to educate you...you can learn more on your own:

The Dominican Republic and Haiti: one island riven by an unresolved past | Carrie Gibson | Comment is free | theguardian.com

The western third of the island was ceded by Spain to France in 1697, and the entire island by 1795. By 1801 the famed former slave General Toussaint Louverture had freed all the slaves on the island and united it under his governorship, though this was short-lived.

In 1808, a group of Dominicans started the war of reconquest to drive out the French and return the eastern part the island to Spanish rule – the west by this point was the republic of Haiti. But by 1822 Haiti had established control of the whole island once more. Indeed, the Dominican Republic gained its independence from Haiti, not Spain, in 1844.

Modern times have been no less complicated. In 1937, Dominican dictator Rafael Trujillo – who wore makeup to lighten his skin and was obsessed with "whitening" the predominantly mixed-race island – ordered the massacre of Haitians in border areas, where many worked cultivating sugar. To determine who was Haitian, soldiers with machetes asked dark-skinned people to say the word "perejil", which is Spanish for parsley. For Creole-speaking Haitians, the "r" sound was difficult to pronounce, and a slip of the tongue became a death sentence. Estimates of the massacre range from 10,000 to 25,000 people killed over the course of a few weeks. And the bitter irony was that Trujillo's grandmother was Haitian.

Today the border continues to inspire fear. Dominican-born children of Haitian descent number around 210,000, in a nation of 10 million. Haitians have long been migrant workers, with many finding seasonal employment in sugar cane fields or other low-wage work, which has become especially crucial in the aftermath of the earthquake. And, like immigrants elsewhere, they are often blamed for taking jobs. At the same time, racialised fears of "Haitianisation" are still regularly voiced by politicians and sections of the media, though many Dominicans have expressed shock and anger over the court's decision. But violence is still directed at Haitians; crimes against them often go unreported; and many continue to live in dire poverty.

Deportations of workers who have no chance to appeal are common – the Dominican military reported it sent away some 47,700 Haitians in the past year, up from 21,000 the year before. And now tens of thousands of people who consider themselves Dominicans face a one-way trip to a country where they cannot speak the language, may not have any family, and face extreme economic hardship. The Haitian government said it "strongly disagrees" with the decision and has recalled its ambassador to the Dominican Republic for consultations on the implications of the ruling.

Anti-Haitianism in the Dominican Republic reaches back decades, if not centuries; unacknowledged and institutionalised, it has been manipulated and put to political use. Rather than being united by their shared histories, the two sides of Hispaniola remain riven by an unresolved past. It is not yet clear how this ruling will be turned into policy, but in facing such an uncertain future, these Dominicans also carry with them a heavy burden of the past.
 
Old 12-21-2013, 12:45 PM
 
2,677 posts, read 1,689,086 times
Reputation: 1045
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
This is a good start to educate you...you can learn more on your own:

The Dominican Republic and Haiti: one island riven by an unresolved past | Carrie Gibson | Comment is free | theguardian.com

The western third of the island was ceded by Spain to France in 1697, and the entire island by 1795. By 1801 the famed former slave General Toussaint Louverture had freed all the slaves on the island and united it under his governorship, though this was short-lived.

In 1808, a group of Dominicans started the war of reconquest to drive out the French and return the eastern part the island to Spanish rule – the west by this point was the republic of Haiti. But by 1822 Haiti had established control of the whole island once more. Indeed, the Dominican Republic gained its independence from Haiti, not Spain, in 1844.

Modern times have been no less complicated. In 1937, Dominican dictator Rafael Trujillo – who wore makeup to lighten his skin and was obsessed with "whitening" the predominantly mixed-race island – ordered the massacre of Haitians in border areas, where many worked cultivating sugar. To determine who was Haitian, soldiers with machetes asked dark-skinned people to say the word "perejil", which is Spanish for parsley. For Creole-speaking Haitians, the "r" sound was difficult to pronounce, and a slip of the tongue became a death sentence. Estimates of the massacre range from 10,000 to 25,000 people killed over the course of a few weeks. And the bitter irony was that Trujillo's grandmother was Haitian.

Today the border continues to inspire fear. Dominican-born children of Haitian descent number around 210,000, in a nation of 10 million. Haitians have long been migrant workers, with many finding seasonal employment in sugar cane fields or other low-wage work, which has become especially crucial in the aftermath of the earthquake. And, like immigrants elsewhere, they are often blamed for taking jobs. At the same time, racialised fears of "Haitianisation" are still regularly voiced by politicians and sections of the media, though many Dominicans have expressed shock and anger over the court's decision. But violence is still directed at Haitians; crimes against them often go unreported; and many continue to live in dire poverty.

Deportations of workers who have no chance to appeal are common – the Dominican military reported it sent away some 47,700 Haitians in the past year, up from 21,000 the year before. And now tens of thousands of people who consider themselves Dominicans face a one-way trip to a country where they cannot speak the language, may not have any family, and face extreme economic hardship. The Haitian government said it "strongly disagrees" with the decision and has recalled its ambassador to the Dominican Republic for consultations on the implications of the ruling.

Anti-Haitianism in the Dominican Republic reaches back decades, if not centuries; unacknowledged and institutionalised, it has been manipulated and put to political use. Rather than being united by their shared histories, the two sides of Hispaniola remain riven by an unresolved past. It is not yet clear how this ruling will be turned into policy, but in facing such an uncertain future, these Dominicans also carry with them a heavy burden of the past.
I knew all of this information prior to this post as I am familiar with the relationship between the two countries.

Haitians are simply not wanted in the Dominican Republic.

These braceros were paid workers brought in by the Dominican government to cut cane.

Until DR closes its border and stops flooding Haiti with its goods, it will continue to be awash in poor Haitians giving birth in its territory.
 
Old 12-21-2013, 03:12 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 10,065,238 times
Reputation: 7366
First of all, what is a Puerto Rican? Puerto Ricans are those American citizens who live on the Caribbean island of Puerto Rico.

Puerto Rican is not a nationality, it is an ethnic group. Puerto Ricans share their nationality with Texans, Idahoans, New Yorkers, Alaskans, and every other American. Puerto Ricans can be any shade of color ranging from Nordic looking to Black looking.

Secondly, most people who claim to be "Puerto Rican" are really Nuyoricans. Most of them can't even speak Spanish and know squat about Puerto Rico. Half of them can't even tell the difference between Mexico and Puerto Rico. Also, Nuyoricans tend to be widely despised in Puerto Rico. They are seen as embarrassments who hurt their image. Nuyoricans make it very hard for Puerto Ricans to be seen in a positive light by the rest of the nation.
 
Old 12-21-2013, 06:29 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,468,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post
I'm assuming your from Philadelphia maybe because of the username but African Americans and Puerto Ricans in New York City get along very well, occupy the same neighborhoods, and in some cases work together too.

Some even engage in robberies together.

Her issue is that blacks should be a community walled off from every one else. So she doesn't like it if we get on with others. What she fails to understand is that the communities who she feels that we ought to copy are well integrated into the mainstream.

Koreans don't grow their own vegetables. They know where to get them cheaply, from reliable suppliers and most of the customers aren't Korean. And their biggest ambition is that their kids go to Harvard and Yale and land big corporate jobs, and some even want them to bring home a white spouse. And yes the vast majority of Koreans do not work for other Koreans, nor do they own their own businesses.

I am not even sure if when she says "black" she includes black immigrants. If a woman is proud to be Jamaican why is this so offensive?
 
Old 12-21-2013, 06:39 PM
 
31,634 posts, read 26,478,552 times
Reputation: 24458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post
I knew all of this information prior to this post as I am familiar with the relationship between the two countries.

Haitians are simply not wanted in the Dominican Republic.

These braceros were paid workers brought in by the Dominican government to cut cane.

Until DR closes its border and stops flooding Haiti with its goods, it will continue to be awash in poor Haitians giving birth in its territory.
Saw this film on CUNY-TV several months back: City Cinematheque » Haiti, Chérie » CUNY TV » City University Television

HAITI CHERIE - Bande-annonce VO - Vidéo avec Dailymotion
 
Old 12-21-2013, 06:42 PM
 
31,634 posts, read 26,478,552 times
Reputation: 24458
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
First of all, what is a Puerto Rican? Puerto Ricans are those American citizens who live on the Caribbean island of Puerto Rico.

Puerto Rican is not a nationality, it is an ethnic group. Puerto Ricans share their nationality with Texans, Idahoans, New Yorkers, Alaskans, and every other American. Puerto Ricans can be any shade of color ranging from Nordic looking to Black looking.

Secondly, most people who claim to be "Puerto Rican" are really Nuyoricans. Most of them can't even speak Spanish and know squat about Puerto Rico. Half of them can't even tell the difference between Mexico and Puerto Rico. Also, Nuyoricans tend to be widely despised in Puerto Rico. They are seen as embarrassments who hurt their image. Nuyoricans make it very hard for Puerto Ricans to be seen in a positive light by the rest of the nation.
Far as those from Spain are concerned none of the North or South American dialects are true "Spanish". In fact learned very early to *NEVER* call a European Spanish person "Puerto Rican".
 
Old 12-21-2013, 06:56 PM
 
2,677 posts, read 1,689,086 times
Reputation: 1045
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
First of all, what is a Puerto Rican? Puerto Ricans are those American citizens who live on the Caribbean island of Puerto Rico.

Puerto Rican is not a nationality, it is an ethnic group. Puerto Ricans share their nationality with Texans, Idahoans, New Yorkers, Alaskans, and every other American. Puerto Ricans can be any shade of color ranging from Nordic looking to Black looking.

Secondly, most people who claim to be "Puerto Rican" are really Nuyoricans. Most of them can't even speak Spanish and know squat about Puerto Rico. Half of them can't even tell the difference between Mexico and Puerto Rico. Also, Nuyoricans tend to be widely despised in Puerto Rico. They are seen as embarrassments who hurt their image. Nuyoricans make it very hard for Puerto Ricans to be seen in a positive light by the rest of the nation.
You know all Puerto Ricans don't live in New York right?
 
Old 12-21-2013, 07:08 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,823,280 times
Reputation: 10119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post
I knew all of this information prior to this post as I am familiar with the relationship between the two countries.

Haitians are simply not wanted in the Dominican Republic.

These braceros were paid workers brought in by the Dominican government to cut cane.

Until DR closes its border and stops flooding Haiti with its goods, it will continue to be awash in poor Haitians giving birth in its territory.
The conflict between Haitians and Dominicans is ethnic.

It does make sense. In the British Isles the Irish and the British have been at each other's throats. The Protestants versus the Catholics.

In Africa you have wars between different nations of Blacks.

So why is it shocking that there's war in Hispa~ola because of the history of the island?

Basically, the nasty history between the Haitians and the Dominicans came from the colonial wars between the Spanish and the French (two white groups who fought each other).
 
Old 12-21-2013, 07:10 PM
 
2,677 posts, read 1,689,086 times
Reputation: 1045
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Some even engage in robberies together.

Her issue is that blacks should be a community walled off from every one else. So she doesn't like it if we get on with others. What she fails to understand is that the communities who she feels that we ought to copy are well integrated into the mainstream.

Koreans don't grow their own vegetables. They know where to get them cheaply, from reliable suppliers and most of the customers aren't Korean. And their biggest ambition is that their kids go to Harvard and Yale and land big corporate jobs, and some even want them to bring home a white spouse. And yes the vast majority of Koreans do not work for other Koreans, nor do they own their own businesses.

I am not even sure if when she says "black" she includes black immigrants. If a woman is proud to be Jamaican why is this so offensive?
good point, caribnyc

Even worse, she probably doesn't know that only 4% of enslaved Africans arrived in the United States and that most African slaves were brought to Latin America and the Caribbean islands (places like Puerto Rico) and probably thinks that only Black Americans are the real black people.
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