Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I also never said that housing isn't a problem. Clearly it is. Affordability is a poblem for people who have money and aren't mentally ill. But sticking an untreated mentally ill person in a place he can afford, without treatment, is not a solution. Housing in and of itself has never cured schizophrenia, depression, or bi-polar. The sick people would still be free to annoy, harass, and in extreme cases, to kill.
And because these illnessess, as I also said, are frequently diganosed or manifest themselves in adulthood when people are 18 and over, NO ONE can mandate treatement for them short of suicide or homicide. Not thier parents. loved ones, friends, or anybody else. I say again, that's just wrong. It's not helping the people who need help the most, and it endangers the rest of us.
Almost everyone sees that the bad incidents involving seriously mentally ill is increasing. Treatment is the obvious answer. It can only happen when folks admit that the best solution is or society to get serious about helping those who cannot help themselves.
Generally speaking, people with mental illness who have places to stay do not go around harassing or annoying the general populace. Especially people with depression or who are bipolar.
This is exactly why by law and by the US constitution you cannot institutionalize someone unless they are suicidal or homicidal.
You'd want to lock up a depressed person,and take away their rights to decide whether or not they want treatment or what treatment is needed.
In the case of people with issues like depression, sometimes their family and so called friends are what has made the person depressed! Perhaps the person just needs to get a new crew to hang with. Anybody could be mad at anyone and say whatever to get them locked up, if what you wanted to happen happened.
And let's be honest, how many of those who actually commit crimes are legitimately mentally ill? I'm sure any criminal would love to be able to hide behind mental illness. But the fact is, the majority of people with mental illness DO NOT KILL people. Most people who struggle with DEPRESSION do not kill themselves. There are varying degrees of depression with varying cause. Seasonal Affective Disorder can be helped by moving to a place where there is MORE SUN in the winter.
You seem to be very hostile towards anyone with a psychiatric disorder and this kind of hostility leads to stigma. Locking someone up should be reserved for the most serious cases.
If someone has a court order to be institutionalized, you've potentially indefinitely ruined that person's life. There's a judgement against them and there can be extreme consequences in terms of housing, employment, etc. Most people who have depression or who are bipolar can take care of themselves and are fine. Its their choice whether their condition needs treatment or not.
And by the way, everyone has gotten depressed at some point.
But back to depression and bipolar, having stable places to stay, AND having income and the ability to pay for mental help treatment goes a long way in helping. Mental health treatment costs money. Yet when they have insurance or access to a community health center, many people go voluntarily go for mental health treatment. Its their choice, unless they are suicidal or homicidal.
Back in the day when people were institutionalized, a husband could have his complaining wife locked away for being crazy. Parents could lock away their gay children, or basically normal rebellious straight children. Not at all a great system. Joe Kennedy had his rebellious daughter, Rose Kennedy, lobotomized.
Psychotics who see a stranger walking by as Adolph Hitler, or those who take orders from God speaking through their dog DO need institutionalization and treatment before Adolph or the dog tell them to kill someone.
Homeless psychotics DO need to be taken off the sidewalks they are sleeping on and be put somewhere where they can be housed and fed and treated. Have you ever seen the rotting, near gangrenous feet of some of these poor souls.
Generally speaking, people with mental illness who have places to stay do not go around harassing or annoying the general populace. Especially people with depression or who are bipolar.
This is exactly why by law and by the US constitution you cannot institutionalize someone unless they are suicidal or homicidal.
You'd want to lock up a depressed person,and take away their rights to decide whether or not they want treatment or what treatment is needed.
In the case of people with issues like depression, sometimes their family and so called friends are what has made the person depressed! Perhaps the person just needs to get a new crew to hang with. Anybody could be mad at anyone and say whatever to get them locked up, if what you wanted to happen happened.
And let's be honest, how many of those who actually commit crimes are legitimately mentally ill? I'm sure any criminal would love to be able to hide behind mental illness. But the fact is, the majority of people with mental illness DO NOT KILL people. Most people who struggle with DEPRESSION do not kill themselves. There are varying degrees of depression with varying cause. Seasonal Affective Disorder can be helped by moving to a place where there is MORE SUN in the winter.
You seem to be very hostile towards anyone with a psychiatric disorder and this kind of hostility leads to stigma. Locking someone up should be reserved for the most serious cases.
If someone has a court order to be institutionalized, you've potentially indefinitely ruined that person's life. There's a judgement against them and there can be extreme consequences in terms of housing, employment, etc. Most people who have depression or who are bipolar can take care of themselves and are fine. Its their choice whether their condition needs treatment or not.
And by the way, everyone has gotten depressed at some point.
But back to depression and bipolar, having stable places to stay, AND having income and the ability to pay for mental help treatment goes a long way in helping. Mental health treatment costs money. Yet when they have insurance or access to a community health center, many people go voluntarily go for mental health treatment. Its their choice, unless they are suicidal or homicidal.
Back in the day when people were institutionalized, a husband could have his complaining wife locked away for being crazy. Parents could lock away their gay children, or basically normal rebellious straight children. Not at all a great system. Joe Kennedy had his rebellious daughter, Rose Kennedy, lobotomized.
My last word on all this: Rather than hostile, I am extremely sympathetic to the pight of the mentally ill and I come by it naturally. In my extended family I have several relatives, from their 20s to their 50s, with various forms of illness and I have seen what's happened to them.
The ones that fared best are indeed living in good, small group homes and will probably live there for the rest of their lives. They were convinced to go by aging parents. Everybody doesn't have that sort of support, however. The worst is in jail for attempted murder -- and prison IS the largest mental health treatment system in the US, largely because there are no other alternatives. Is that what we want? Is he -- and the thousands like him doing hard time -- better off ? I don't think anyone can honestly answer yes. And his immediate family knew something was wrong but didn't know what to do even after he was disagnosed schizophrenic.
So yes, an involuntary committment should be subject to severe safeguards. And used relatively rarely since most mentally ill are not violent. It should not be easy to do, but it should also be easier than it is. The pendulum has swung too far and IMO letting seriously crazy people roam around untreated is an act of indifference bordering on true hatred.
Last edited by citylove101; 10-02-2013 at 03:42 PM..
Psychotics who see a stranger waling by as Adolph Hitler, or those who take orders from God speaking through their dog DO need institutionalization and treatment before Adolph or the dog tell them to kill someone.
Homeless psychotics DO need to be taken off the sidewalks they are sleeping on and be put somewhere where they can be housed and fed and treated. Have you ever seen the rotting, near gangrenous feet of some of these poor souls.
Yes, it takes money...let the rich foot the bill.
Not necessarily. What's a psychotic? A person may LOOK crazy to you, but that is not a DIAGNOSIS from a mental health professional. A person sleeping on the sidewalk could just be a drunk or someone who got EVICTED from his apartment after he LOST his JOB.
You see all sorts of apparently crazy people yelling out nonsense in NYC. Sometimes they are just drunk or high. And the majority of homeless people do not fall in the above category. Notice also that NYC's homeless population grew as the city became increasingly unaffordable.
So you want to use Adolf Hiter like repression to round up people you don't like, and put them in concentration camps. The definition of the fake liberal who has no respect for civil liberties, the US constitution, or his fellow humanity. All because he is scared, all poor people need to be locked away permanently.
My last word on all this: Rather than hostile, I am extremely sympathetic to the pight of the mentally ill and I come by it naturally. In my extended family I have several relatives, from their 20s to their 50s, with various forms of illness and I have seen what's happened to them.
The ones that fared best are indeed living in good, small group homes and will probably live there for the rest of their lives. They were convinced to go by aging parents. Everybody doesn't have that sort of support, however. The worst is in jail for attempted murder -- and prison IS the largest mental health treatment system in the US, largely because there are no other alternatives. Is that what we want? Is he -- and the thousands like him doing hard time -- better off ? I don't think anyone can honestly answer yes. And his immediate family knew something was wrong but didn't know what to do even after he was disagnosed schizophrenic.
So yes, an involuntary committment should be subject to severe safeguards. And used relatively rarely since most mentally ill are not violent. It should not be easy to, but it should also be easier than it is. The pendulum has swung too far and IMO letting seriously crazy people roam around untreated is an act of indifference bordering on true hatred.
In terms of people being instutionalized, there's actually other condition that will get someone institutionalized. If someone isn't able to take care of themselves due to psychological or physical reasons, one can call APS. If APS determines that the person cannot take care of themselves, even if they refuse it, APS can get a court order mandating treatment or institutionalization.
So you want to use Adolf Hiter like repression to round up people you don't
like, and put them in concentration camps.
No, I want them evaluated, housed, fed and TREATED. Those who are deemed psychotic need to be institutionalized, not allowed to roam the streets until the do something that warrants prison.
One thing you must know about insane people...they are insane.
No, I want them evaluated, housed, fed and TREATED. Those who are deemed psychotic need to be institutionalized, not allowed to roam the streets until the do something that warrants prison.
One thing you must know about insane people...they are insane.
If they do go before a judge, under current laws, they can indeed be committed (if they cannot realistically take care of themselves, are homicidal, or suicidal). The problem is you'd need to devote more resources to the evaluation and the treatment.
For this, you don't necessarily have to even raise taxes. NYS finally got a better policy on marijuana. Now if they catch you with small quantities, you just get a ticket and pay a fine. No jail unless you're wanted for other stuff.
Prison, like hospitalization for mental illness, should be concentrated and focused on really needy cases.
Oh, other thing that could put more money into mental health? Curtail welfare spending on people who don't need it long term, and refocus it on those who truly do need it. And when I complain about welfare fraud, I'm not just talking about clients. What about all the shady slumlords taking Section 8 and not maintaining their buildings? What about the fake service industry that springs up around welfare? Simply reprioritize the money that's out there to where its needed more.
Even when the money is there, its also up to the public to play their part. If you know someone who truly can't take care of themselves due to psychological reasons, call APS if you can't get them to go get help. By law APS has to investigate and if they determine the person is unable to take care of themselves, a court ordered intervention can happen.
So yes, an involuntary committment should be subject to severe
safeguards.
Don't disregard the MANY who would PREFER to be put up in a warm room, fed, bathed, clothed and treated but they do not have this option be because we have become a callous society whose only interest is in enriching plutocrats, not caring for those in need.
Don't disregard the MANY who would PREFER to be put up in a warm room, fed, bathed, clothed and treated but they do not have this option be because we have become a callous society whose only interest is in enriching plutocrats, not caring for those in need.
If a person legitimately and truly cannot take care of themselves due to mental or physical ability, there are homes for them and there is SSI.
Not a callous society. Make it too easy, and anyone could claim to be crazy just to get a warm room, be fed, bathed, and clothed. These programs are not there for the lazy, the stupid, the criminal, and the addict/drunk all of whom I'm sure would love to be taken care of and treated.
No person or society has unlimited compassion. We're not biologically set to do so.
Last edited by NyWriterdude; 10-03-2013 at 04:41 PM..
I wouldn't mind a crime wave to scare away tourists. The early 90s was the best times to be in NYC, Times Square was the coolest place back then. Now it's just a Disney world ripoff.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
