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I grew up here and there was never any "hatred" between AAs and Caribbeans. I currently live in a mixed AA, African, Caribbean and Indian/Pakistani neighborhood in Queens.
There is no "hatred". ?
The people who concoct this notion of "hatred" are either those whites who wish to divide and rule so stir up problems......a certain lawyer connected to the ACLU, who ran for Public Advocate, spoke in front of a room of people who he thought were AA...but turned out to be 2nd or 3rd generation Caribbean...along with AAs, tried to give the impression that Caribbean blacks "hate" AAs. Was shocked when many told them that they are Caribbean descended blacks, and suggested that he needed to get his facts correct before he spouted opff.
Or they might be the very ethnocentic AAs who do not understand that people can have complex identities. Because some one is proudly "Caribbean, African, Or Latin, doesnt mean that they arent also proudly "black", and eager to work with AAs to solve the problems that most blacksm regardless of ethnic background face. These attitudes among AAs are decling, a d I find that most AAs under 60, not only see nothing wrong with expressions of CAribbean or African pride, but view it as making life more interesting as they engage people who bring different heritage to the table.
This is not to deny that there arent some ignorant Caribbean or African blacks who spout ignorance about AAs, or acknowledge that the struggles of AAs, and of West Indian blacks of an earlier era, hasnt made life easier for them as blacks.
There has been a long history, which continues today, of West Indian and American blacks working together to solve problems faced by blacks in general.
For the third, they are assimilated. How many people knew that Bill Thompson has Caribbean roots, before he exposed them?
I didn't.
See what I said earlier? Many WIs only feel to reveal it on a NEED TO KNOW basis.
Thompson's not stupid. He threw that part about his mother in there, because he knows there's a huge caribbean and african population here whom "might" give him that edge.
It didn't work. Lol!
Last edited by marilyn220; 10-09-2013 at 05:30 PM..
Okay. So think about all of the famous Black New Yorkers who are just a generation or two removed from the West Indies.
I have Louis Farrakhan's name bolded because he's probably the LAST person whose West Indian heritage comes to mind.
Yet he is the most West Indian of all when he wants to be. He used to be well known as a calypso singer in his youth and can imitate his mother, who is from St Kitts (same island as Bill Thompson's paternal grandparents came from). He frequently visits St K to see his relatives.
From the HRA current statistics Black Americans are the smallest group right now receiving public assistance and snap in NYC. Dominicans are the largest. Many other groups are now receiving asistance.
Employers in the NY metro area do prefer WI, and African, over American Blacks if they are hiring Black people that is a fact. This usually is not based on education and qualifications because the applicant pool will have similar qualifications. It is usually do to preconceived notions about Black Americans.
Black Americans with means tend to find going to a HBCU more odvantageous and a door into Ivy league graduate schools. The HBCU' s provide life long connections for them.
It depends on the type of job. In a hospital a West Indian might be preferred. On Wall Street or white shoe law firms AAs definitely have the advantage.
A better way to put it is that WORKING class West Indians/Africans will be preferred over WORKING class AAs. They bring the immigrant drive, and a certain degree of "naivety" which makes them easier to deal with. This however declines the longer the live in the USA.
I have a Guyanese client who tells me that he prefers to hire RECENT Caribbean or Dominican arrivals than AAs, or West Indians and PRs/Dominicans who grew up here. The former will want any job, because they see that is a foothold in the USA. The latter will not be happy if its a low paying job with limited prospects, and so the best candidates will shun that work. He owns a courier company, so you know what types of jobs he offers.
Indeed there are some who now put West Indian and American blacks in one category and Africans in another. The latter being more recent arrivals and so still imbued with the notion of the American Dream being easily attainable.
So you're saying that people like Harry Belafonte, Heavy D, Doug E. Fresh or Biggie Smalls are the exception rather than the rule?
How would first generation Caribbean blacks have limited ties to African Americans when they go to school together?
Let us agree on a definition. First generation are the people who migrate to the USA. Given that one is referencing the "Caribbeanness" of these people then you start with the immigrant generation. Most arrive after school age, mix mainly with their West Indian friends, indeed often mostly with people whop they knew from back home. Their ties to AAs is mainly from work, and sometimes there is a degree of mistrust.
Indeed one can even distinguish those caribebaN people who arrive as middled aged people and reference themselves soley as say Bajans, and might express mistrust for Jamaicans. And those arrive younger, have more social networks outside of people from back home, and so might have a more ethnic "WEst Indian", rather than a purely national identity. But even they will mix more with West Indians for cultural reasons. And indeed might scoff US born Caribbean people as having "lost" their culture.
They are 1.5ers if they arrive as kids. They are 2nd generation if born in the USA, or came under 5 y/o. They are 3rd generation of at least one of their parents has Caribbean roots. So Bill Thompson is 3rd generation with caribbean roots on his father's side. His father is 2nd because BOTH of his parents came from St Kitts, but he was born in the USA.
So a 2nd generation MIGHT have a Caribbean identity because they grew up in a Caribbean household, and might be more exposed to Caribbean culture, especially if the neighborhood is heavily Caribbean. I can well imagine that a kid growing up in East Flatbush will have a different cultural perspective than one growing up in East NY, or in Long island.
2nd generations go to school with AAs, live in the USA, so are more impacted by the US culture, and so have a deeper understanding of AAs than their parents have. They also have a deeper experience of being "black" in a white dominated society, so will be more confrontational towards the system than their parents will be. they have less of the immigrant "escape" fantasies. Whereas their parents can seek to escapet white racism by dreaming about returning "home", their US born and/or bred kids do not have this option.
3rd generations are basically AA. 2nd generations is harder to tell. Some are and some arent. Some switch, depending on the context.
So its not true to say that Caribbean blacks "hate" AAs. But its also not true to pretend as if those who arrived in the USA do not draw sharp distinctions between themselves and AAs, and even with their US born offspring.
Let me correct you. She is NOT Bajan. She is a US born black opf Bajan AND Panamanian ancestry. She is definitely different from Rihanna when Rihanna is being "Bajan", or even when she is portraying a more international image for commercial reasons.
Let us agree on a definition. First generation are the people who migrate to the USA. Given that one is referencing the "Caribbeanness" of these p[eople then you start with the immigrant generation. Most arrive after school age, mix wmainly with their West Indian friends, indeed often mostly with people whop they knew from back home. Their ties to AAs is mainly from work, and sometimes there is a degree of mistrust.
They are 1.5ers if they arrive a skids. They are 2nd generation if born in the USA, or came under 5 y/o. They are 3rd generation of at least one of their parents has Caribbean roots. So Bill Thompson is 3rd generation with caribbean roots on his father's side. His father is 2nd because BOTH of his parents came from St Kitts, but he was born in the USA.
So a 2nd generation MIGHT have a Caribbean identity because they grew up in a Caribbean household, and might be more exposed to Caribbean culture, especially if the neighborhood is heavily Caribbean. 2nd generations go to school with AAs, live in the USA, so are more impacted by the US culture, and so have a deeper understanding of AAs than their parents have. They also have a deeper experience of being "black" in a white dominated society, so will be more confrontational towards the system than their parents will be. they have less of the immigrant "escape" fantasies. Whereas their parents can seek to escapet white racism by dreaming about returning "home", their US born and/or bred kids do not have this option.
3rd generations are basically AA. 2nd generations is harder to tell. Some are and some arent. Some switch, depending on the context.
I see what you're saying. I agree for the most part.
I consider myself both. But then again, I have one parent who's Black American. My wife has a Jamaican father and a Trinidadian mother. She also considers herself to be both. At the end of the day, though, I think it's all semantics. It's hard to deny an African American identity when you talk like every other Black American, listen primarily to R&B, join a black fraternity/sorority and other campus organizations, etc. To fight about whether the label "African American" applies or not is elevating form over substance, imo.
The people who concoct this notion of "hatred" are either those whites who wish to divide and rule so stir up problems......a certain lawyer connected to the ACLU, who ran for Public Advocate, spoke in front of a room of people who he thought were AA...but turned out to be 2nd or 3rd generation Caribbean...along with AAs, tried to give the impression that Caribbean blacks "hate" AAs. Was shocked when many told them that they are Caribbean descended blacks, and suggested that he needed to get his facts correct before he spouted opff.
Or they might be the very ethnocentic AAs who do not understand that people can have complex identities. Because some one is proudly "Caribbean, African, Or Latin, doesnt mean that they arent also proudly "black", and eager to work with AAs to solve the problems that most blacksm regardless of ethnic background face. These attitudes among AAs are decling, a d I find that most AAs under 60, not only see nothing wrong with expressions of CAribbean or African pride, but view it as making life more interesting as they engage people who bring different heritage to the table.
This is not to deny that there arent some ignorant Caribbean or African blacks who spout ignorance about AAs, or acknowledge that the struggles of AAs, and of West Indian blacks of an earlier era, hasnt made life easier for them as blacks.
There has been a long history, which continues today, of West Indian and American blacks working together to solve problems faced by blacks in general.
Marcus Garvey comes to mind.
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