Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-22-2013, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
9,238 posts, read 23,968,200 times
Reputation: 7748

Advertisements

Does anyone have any crime stats from the specific area I was posting about....St.Mark's Place,Stuyvesant Place,Hamilton Avenue area? I did see one abandoned house over on the other side near a homeless shelter(central Avenue?) but even there seemed very tame to me compared to large areas of The South Bronx,Harlem,Upper Manhattan,East Brooklyn and Southeast Queens.I am a pretty good judge of hoody neighborhoods around the city but I just didn't get that vibe at all in the area I was in.I could be wrong but I have a hard time imagining that the crime in that area is much worse than the NYC average.It could have the highest crime rate in Staten Island,which I don't think it does,and still just be average or even below when compared to the rest of NYC.

I get what some who grew up in or live in the more suburban areas of SI are saying about "a little seedy" and the inconvenience of most of SI without a car but that doesn't help in trying to figure out what I'm trying to figure out.Most of NYC is still a little seedy to me so it doesn't mean too much.

Last edited by bluedog2; 10-22-2013 at 10:01 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-22-2013, 09:48 PM
 
111 posts, read 144,129 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
Does anyone have any crime stats from the specific area I was posting about....St.Mark's Place,Stuyvesant Place,Hamilton Avenue area? I did see one abandoned house over on the other side near a homeless shelter but even there seemed very tame to me compared to large areas of The South Bronx,Harlem,Upper Manhattan,East Brooklyn and Southeast Queens.I am a pretty good judge of hoody neighborhoods around the city but I just didn't get that vibe at all in the area I was in.I could be wrong but I have a hard time imagining that the crime in that area is much worse than the NYC average.It could have the highest crime rate in Staten Island,which I don't think it does,and still just be average or even above when compared to the rest of NYC.

I get what some who grew up in or live in the more suburban areas of SI are saying about "a little seedy" and the inconvenience of most of SI without a car but that doesn't help in trying to figure out what I'm trying to figure out.
Bluedog...go to WWW.SpotCrime.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2013, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
9,238 posts, read 23,968,200 times
Reputation: 7748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Supernatural View Post
Bluedog...go to SpotCrime Crime Map
Thanks,I did.Don't know how accurate spot crime is but it looks like the area is pretty quiet.Only 2 crimes so far this year,LOL.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2013, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
3,921 posts, read 9,088,672 times
Reputation: 1670
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
It's 20 minutes from Manhattan on the ferry and the ferry is free.

So,why are the prices so low and why don't more people consider living there? Is it just because it's Staten Island and has a kind of schmaltzy rep ? Like The Bx has a bad rep ? Is it just so uncool that nobody can bear to consider it ? Or is there some other reason ? I think if I worked in Manhattan,especially lower Manhattan,I'd give it very serious consideration but nobody ever seems to.
For starters, the ferry ride is 25 minutes (Those extra 5 minute spent getting into the slip are annoying as anything), and more importantly, you have to factor in the time spent getting to and from the terminal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
Also,I looked at the ferry schedule and even on Sundays and evenings it seems to run every 30 minutes.At least they seem to run very punctually,like clockwork.Seems to me that if you lived within 10 or 15 minute let's say of the ferry,you could learn to time it quite well.

I wouldn't bother with a car or busses,I don't think,if I lived there.I think the little shopping area behind the borough hall/courthouse would be ok for most times and just get everything else in Manhattan.LOL,I have friends in very pricey Williamsburg who still do their grocery shopping in Manhattan and lug it on the subway.

The neighborhood would never work for me because I work in The Bronx but if I worked in lower Manhattan I think I'd rather live in St George( the nice part) than places like Jersey City or deep into Brooklyn or a lot of places in Queens or The Bx.
Is the ferry relatively punctual? Yes, but it's not 100% reliable. For starters, they like to cancel boats whenever they have to deal with a sick passenger (instead of getting them off the boat and dealing with them there). And even just with day-to-day service, the ferry can be delayed. There have been times when boats have left 10-15 minutes late (on top of the fact that they only run every 30 minutes most of the time). And from what I heard, it's even worse on Saturday nights, where you have a ton of people piling onto the boat, which means it takes a long time to load and unload, throwing the boat behind schedule by 20+ minutes.

And it may sound easy to just time yourself for the ferry, but even if the ferry was 100% punctual (which like I said, it isn't) most people like to have the flexibility of knowing that leaving their home five minutes later isn't going to cost them a full half hour or more. If you're going out with your friends in Manhattan, it sucks to have to cut the night short because you don't want to miss the ferry that runs every hour. Even 15 minute service during rush hour isn't all that great (again, assuming 100% punctuality)

Now, FWIW, there is a plan to expand service to run every 30 minutes until 2AM every day, which would help, but still still wouldn't do a whole lot to change the neighborhood.

Basically, there's a ton of neighborhoods where you can get 25 minute service into Manhattan (whether Downtown or Midtown), and with the low ferry frequencies, somebody looking to minimize their commute is going to look at all those areas before they would consider St. George. Commuting-wise, an area like say, Sunset Park is much easier than St. George.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
I do appreciate your insight but I am not suggesting that all of Staten Island is just as convenient to Manhattan.Only suggesting that that one neighborhood that is a 10 minute walk from the ferry might be as or more convenient to lower Manhattan than much of the rest of the city is.I am of course mindful that if you had to rely on a bus or some other way to get to the ferry itself, it would change everything.And I never thought of them canceling ferries and losing a whole hour because of that.Does that happen frequently ? Certainly something to consider.
Well, that's the thing: That it's only appealing to a very narrow demographic (in terms of commuters). It only works well if you're working in Lower Manhattan (and don't mind the long off-peak waits). And it's a very specific part of Lower Manhattan, because otherwise, you have to transfer to a bus or subway. (Really, anything south of the WTC. City Hall would be pushing it, as far as walking)

Also, when the ferry runs every hour, that means that there's only one boat on the line. So I'm not sure what that would mean if a boat were to be cancelled. (I try not to travel when they're running every hour)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Jersey Street is considered St. George?
Nope. New Brighton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernski View Post
Residents of Staten Island pride themselves on being residents of New York City's "forgotten borough". Most residents of S.I. would like it kept that way. The folk there are descendants of Irish/Italian/Russian immigrants who were blue-collar workers like former NYPD officers and FDNY firemen. The borough has one train line, notorious Arthur Kill dump site, some farmland, and historically didn't welcome people of color (Black, Asian, or Hispanic). With surge of Russians, some African-Americans and Hispanics moved in. To OP - The Saint George area is "sketchy" and is just as a stop for S.I. Ferry. Few Italian-Americans there have links to organized crime family of neighboring New Jersey.
African-Americans and Hispanics living on island are treated as outsiders by Irish/Italian/Russian families steeped in history there. Staten Island doesn't get a bad rap like the Bronx. It's a unique borough where few outsiders are welcome. Producers and researchers of great "Copland" film conveyed this close-knit dynamic. I say Staten Island is nice place to visit, not comfy to live in.
Dafuq is this? A surge of Russians led to Blacks & Hispanics moving in? In case you haven't realized, there were plenty of Blacks & Hispanics way before any sizable number of Russians came in. And "few outsiders are welcome"? You do realize that the borough is larger than some mid-sized cities, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirtiger View Post
any insight about that giant park by Victory blvd?

I was driving thru there 5am in the morning the other week. The park looks so nice as I was driving by.
You mean Silver Lake Park over by Forest Avenue, across from the apartments? It's a nice area.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2013, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Ubique
4,315 posts, read 4,167,112 times
Reputation: 2822
St. George has struggled with revitalization for many years. Over Borough Hall and the Library it's either people having business at the Courthouse or at the hood. Below Bay Street, and next to the ferry, there was supposed to be a Lighthouse Museum, which I don't think it ever opened. The SIRR train goes right behind the site and over the tunnels where they kept the whale oil.

Next to it, and behind the Post Office on Bay Street, there is an abandoned Building, which although is front-row to NY harbor can't seem to be fixed. Going towards Jersey Street, it's the school and all seem projects all around.

The boat used to be very punctual, but since 9/11 it has gone down hill. Since then, DOT fired and even arrested some ferry people for nepotism and corruption, and has also made budget cuts. Subway ain't never coming to SI.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2013, 08:31 AM
 
31,588 posts, read 26,430,119 times
Reputation: 24421
Was born and raised on SI and up until the 1980's or so Saint George was a beautiful area. Yes, once you crossed Saint Mark's Place things could get "rough" and certainly once you got closer to Jersey Street, but all and all it was pretty nice.

Besides the 120 NYPD precinct, you had Saint Peter's (Catholic) girls school and church (the school is now closed). The Saint George Diner, The College of Staten Island (St. George Campus), and countless other businesses and shops both on Richmond Terrace going towards Jersey Street and Bay Street towards Victory Blvd.

The biggest loss was when the College of SI closed the St. George campus and consolidated everything in their new Willowbrook campus. That took a lot of life out of the area. Then other businesses such as those that line Bay Street either closed or changed to sketchy sort of things. Gradually the area simply feel into decline as the focus of SI moved either to mid-island or the south shore.

Since I drive and have not taken the ferry in ages do not get down that way often. Do know a few friends and or their parents still live in St. George and they report lots of new comers moving to the area. Many are coming from NYC and are drawn to the closeness of downtown Manhattan via ferry whilst having more living space for the money than the City. Many gays and others that really love those old Victorian homes are moving to the area and fixing things up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2013, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
9,238 posts, read 23,968,200 times
Reputation: 7748
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Was born and raised on SI and up until the 1980's or so Saint George was a beautiful area. Yes, once you crossed Saint Mark's Place things could get "rough" and certainly once you got closer to Jersey Street, but all and all it was pretty nice.

Besides the 120 NYPD precinct, you had Saint Peter's (Catholic) girls school and church (the school is now closed). The Saint George Diner, The College of Staten Island (St. George Campus), and countless other businesses and shops both on Richmond Terrace going towards Jersey Street and Bay Street towards Victory Blvd.

The biggest loss was when the College of SI closed the St. George campus and consolidated everything in their new Willowbrook campus. That took a lot of life out of the area. Then other businesses such as those that line Bay Street either closed or changed to sketchy sort of things. Gradually the area simply feel into decline as the focus of SI moved either to mid-island or the south shore.

Since I drive and have not taken the ferry in ages do not get down that way often. Do know a few friends and or their parents still live in St. George and they report lots of new comers moving to the area. Many are coming from NYC and are drawn to the closeness of downtown Manhattan via ferry whilst having more living space for the money than the City. Many gays and others that really love those old Victorian homes are moving to the area and fixing things up.
This is exactly what I thought should be happening there when I checked it out.I didn't really find it "sketchy"at all.I think it's been an overlooked area for a long time,mostly because a lot of people have this thing about Staten Island,even when they have never really been there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2013, 06:42 PM
 
1,303 posts, read 1,804,542 times
Reputation: 2486
Two reasons why this area is garbage:

A) Lots of projects. Projects attract drugs, gangs, and unsavory characters.

B) Staten Island Ferry not as convenient as you think. Want to enjoy manhattan esp on the weekend? Enjoy being herded on and off the boat with thousands of obnoxious and annoying tourists.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2013, 06:49 PM
 
33,333 posts, read 46,774,611 times
Reputation: 14025
Quote:
Originally Posted by ny789987 View Post
Two reasons why this area is garbage:

A) Lots of projects. Projects attract drugs, gangs, and unsavory characters.

B) Staten Island Ferry not as convenient as you think. Want to enjoy manhattan esp on the weekend? Enjoy being herded on and off the boat with thousands of obnoxious and annoying tourists.
Richmond Terrace and Stapleton are not in St. George. Neither is Park Hill, which is not NYCHA but just as bad.
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence

Forum TOS: http://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2013, 09:11 PM
 
31,588 posts, read 26,430,119 times
Reputation: 24421
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
This is exactly what I thought should be happening there when I checked it out.I didn't really find it "sketchy"at all.I think it's been an overlooked area for a long time,mostly because a lot of people have this thing about Staten Island,even when they have never really been there.
Here is the thing, and it is best you understand this now; there simply is an element on Staten Island which has always existed but seems to have grown; racial and or ethnic prejudice. There is nothing that happens on the North Shore that does not on the South, however when it does happen on the latter certain people like to point the finger.

Saint George was the hub of the North Shore for years, and mainly white. So much so a neighbor of ours (Italian) told me once that another woman on our block (black) went to the Saint George diner in the 1960's and they would not serve her and it was strongly hinted she should leave.

After CSI closed the SG campus, and the focus of SI shifted to mid-island and South Shore lots of whites left. Victory Blvd and Bay Street did not look like the slum it does now back in the 1980's, just as the rest of SG didn't, but as the place was basically abandoned things became what they are.

New comers to SI have their various beefs and many prefer to live on the South Shore or at least not so far from the Expressway to be too deep into the North Shore. Indeed the divisions between the two have grown over the years as one becomes more European white while the other more minority.

There are many such as the LGBT, artists and other communities trying to bring St. George back. They have to constantly fight the views of those who cannot imagine why anyone would want to live "there" surrounded by "those" people.

Jersey Street near Richmond Terrance is what it is; was that way in the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's and so forth. You just don't go down there! Spent nearly 21 years on SI and can honestly say was physically on JS maybe two or three times. Sure passed by the place, drove through it, and so froth, but didn't go wandering around. You just didn't.

Another problem for the NS is that SI politics is mostly dominated by European whites (Italian, Irish, etc...) that largely come from mid-Island and the South Shore. These persons see giving any sort of major funds for redeveloping parts of the NS has pouring good money after bad. They don't/won't go to the NS, don't know anyone that does and therefore couldn't care less what happens long as they do get their taste of anything that does go on over there. For all the complaining about the "Wheel" going up in SG you mark my words, the local "crew" will have their hands out looking for theirs, trust me.

If I were ever going to live back on the Island again it would likely be on the North Shore. I'd rather live in a beautiful older home that doesn't look like every other one on the block and have a diverse set of neighbors than deal with some of the antics on the South Shore.

Urban Omnibus » Naturally Occurring Cultural Districts: St. George, Staten Island

Forgotten Tour 4, St. George, Staten Island | | Forgotten New YorkForgotten New York

St. George, Staten Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top