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Old 12-01-2013, 11:15 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Are you all mostly for something like the plan outlined below:

Link: The R to JFK via the Rockaway Beach Branch :: Second Ave. Sagas

with the R train branching off from the main trunk at 63 Dr-Rego Park and then crossing through to join up with the A train's Far Rockaway branch? Or you guys advocating some different sort of route? Are there maps for all potential train services that might be feasible?
One issue with that route is is doubles the subway service along the Howard Beach / Aqueduct stations. Those stations are too far from the city and not dense enough to get much ridership, double service would be overkill, though it's only two stations. I'm puzzled why the G is an express, the G is more useful as a local — connecting Brooklyn and Queens neighborhoods not a fast ride to Manhattan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
It wouldn't be so bad if the CityTicket were expanded to cover the entire week rather than just Saturday and Sunday. Does the MTA currently get a large portion of its LIRR and Metro North revenue from riders getting on and off within NYC? If not, it might make financial sense in the long run if LIRR and Metro North ridership within the city goes way up (provided this doesn't mean that bus and subway ridership goes way down--the hope would be that it would replace automobile commutes and also makes people more willing to do non-commuter travel around the city).
City Ticket makes sense off peak, not peak as the trains are too full. Subway/bus ridership won't go way down because the volume of people that could take of advantage of the LIRR isn't that high, and where it is reducing crowding isn't a bad it (say Forest Hills LIRR vs E/F). Still, if I had a monthly metro ticket CityTicket is an extra fare, and if no monthly you might need to switch to the subway at the end, creating a double fare. Is there a reason why taking a bus + subway from Bayside Queens should be cheaper than the LIRR? The Port Washington Branch looks like it didn't get heavy ridership off peak from the closer in Queens (closer than Bayside) stops the time I used it. Might as well make more use of the train. If you go to London, there's no fare difference between commuter rail and subway/bus transit. It just depends on the fare zone.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
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It would also provide a faster way to get to the casino from other parts of Queens. More revenue.
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale View Post
Back when they closed the LIRR station in Glendale there was like one guy boarding from there per day. No platform at all, seemed like you were at some gold rush town out west during the 1800s.

Would also be better as a subway. Now I think it's used to transport trash out of Long Island.
The line is still used during rush hours for a few LIRR trains going to Hunterspoint Avenue & LIC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
One issue with that route is is doubles the subway service along the Howard Beach / Aqueduct stations. Those stations are too far from the city and not dense enough to get much ridership, double service would be overkill, though it's only two stations. I'm puzzled why the G is an express, the G is more useful as a local — connecting Brooklyn and Queens neighborhoods not a fast ride to Manhattan.
In the SecondAvenueSagas link, the G is still listed as a local.

In any case, there are a decent amount of stations that still get frequent service despite having low ridership (for instance, Bushwick-Aberdeen has frequent L train service).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
City Ticket makes sense off peak, not peak as the trains are too full. Subway/bus ridership won't go way down because the volume of people that could take of advantage of the LIRR isn't that high, and where it is reducing crowding isn't a bad it (say Forest Hills LIRR vs E/F). Still, if I had a monthly metro ticket CityTicket is an extra fare, and if no monthly you might need to switch to the subway at the end, creating a double fare. Is there a reason why taking a bus + subway from Bayside Queens should be cheaper than the LIRR? The Port Washington Branch looks like it didn't get heavy ridership off peak from the closer in Queens (closer than Bayside) stops the time I used it. Might as well make more use of the train. If you go to London, there's no fare difference between commuter rail and subway/bus transit. It just depends on the fare zone.
What they could also do is lower the LIRR/MNRR to the price of the express bus off-peak (and cross-honor the weekly express bus passes and LIRR/MNRR passes). NJ Transit has a system where the longer-distance bus passes and commuter rail passes are valid on local buses and light rail lines.
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:50 PM
 
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It's about time! I remember when the train was part of the LIRR. My parents said it was much better before it got taken over by the TA.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:00 AM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
One issue with that route is is doubles the subway service along the Howard Beach / Aqueduct stations. Those stations are too far from the city and not dense enough to get much ridership, double service would be overkill, though it's only two stations. I'm puzzled why the G is an express, the G is more useful as a local — connecting Brooklyn and Queens neighborhoods not a fast ride to Manhattan.




City Ticket makes sense off peak, not peak as the trains are too full. Subway/bus ridership won't go way down because the volume of people that could take of advantage of the LIRR isn't that high, and where it is reducing crowding isn't a bad it (say Forest Hills LIRR vs E/F). Still, if I had a monthly metro ticket CityTicket is an extra fare, and if no monthly you might need to switch to the subway at the end, creating a double fare. Is there a reason why taking a bus + subway from Bayside Queens should be cheaper than the LIRR? The Port Washington Branch looks like it didn't get heavy ridership off peak from the closer in Queens (closer than Bayside) stops the time I used it. Might as well make more use of the train. If you go to London, there's no fare difference between commuter rail and subway/bus transit. It just depends on the fare zone.
It should be okay that the outer terminal stations aren't packed--that seems to be the case for pretty much every line except for the 7. It's more about the turnaround than anything so more trains can run services where there is actual demand (such as re-extending G train service up there). Giving people in the Rockaways easy direct access to Queens and vice versa is more of a nice bonus, it seems. It does seem to me that it'd make more sense to run the M rather than the R there because the F basically goes the same route as the M in Manhattan, however, that'd probably require the M to run a full route on nights and weekends (which I'm sure some people would welcome, but that would be a lot more operators). G looks like it's running local on that map.

It sounds like you made a pretty good argument for having CityTicket during peak hours since it won't be that many more people added to the crowd but still getting more utility out of the train. Isn't the East Side Access supposed to open up more slots for LIRR into Manhattan? Or did I get that wrong? Also, is Atlantic Terminal running at capacity for LIRR turnaround? I'm guessing not, but who knows.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 12-02-2013 at 11:08 AM..
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:02 AM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
It would also provide a faster way to get to the casino from other parts of Queens. More revenue.
And the beach (one more transfer if R stubs at Howard Beach/JFK)! Also, if the US ever feels collectively safe enough and we have the funds to better invest in the airport and its goods, then people might once again visit airports for kicks in the US. Pretty unlikely that, but one less transfer for people on the R train to get to JFK is probably pretty nice.

Anyhow, the plan looks pretty good to me. Are there any maps and/or descriptions of alternate rail services for the line?
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkmatechamp13 View Post
The only problem is that those lines would become too long, which increases potential for delays. (Middle Village to Rockaway Park via Manhattan, or Bay Ridge to Rockaway Park? Yikes!). The G would probably be a better option, because at least it wouldn't be as long.

Though Phase 3 of the SAS is planned to have a connection to the 63rd Street line, which leads into the QBL. So there's that as an option (though, hopefully the SAS gets to Phase 3)
The SAS will eventually be 4 phases and eventually it will go to the Bronx. This make take another 100 years, LOL, but it will happen eventually.

Bloomberg had the city itself pay for an extension of the Flushing line to 34th and 11th, backed by revenue bonds from the areas real estate. If de Blasio is interested in doing that, no reason why he can't issue city bonds to fund the rest of the SAS (he'll have to identify a revenue source and/or cost savings). If de Blasio issues city bonds for phases 2-4, the remaining portions of the Second Avenue would happen that much faster.

De Blasio has his own contacts with the real estate industry, so he maybe able to en list their cooperation.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:49 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: NYC
46,051 posts, read 43,438,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
And the beach (one more transfer if R stubs at Howard Beach/JFK)! Also, if the US ever feels collectively safe enough and we have the funds to better invest in the airport and its goods, then people might once again visit airports for kicks in the US. Pretty unlikely that, but one less transfer for people on the R train to get to JFK is probably pretty nice.

Anyhow, the plan looks pretty good to me. Are there any maps and/or descriptions of alternate rail services for the line?
Except the beach gets really low ridership, the rockaway subway stops are among the lowest in the system. The MTA ususally tries to match frequency with ridership, so it would be a mismatch.

The third market posited, fast service to the Rockaways, is the weakest. The stations in the Rockaways are some of the least busy in the subway system, with only a few hundreds of thousands of annual boardings each. They only support 15-minute service, with half of the A trains terminating at Ozone Park; since there are two Rockaway branches, the less busy only gets a shuttle except at rush hour, when there is enough demand for a few direct trains. Even with 15-minute service, it’s expensive to serve an area so far away with a flat fare; until a series of fare unifications, the subway charged a higher fare to stations in the Rockaways.

The Rockaway Cutoff | Pedestrian Observations

And south of Rego Park the article mentions the area by the line is relatively lightly developed.
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:42 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Except the beach gets really low ridership, the rockaway subway stops are among the lowest in the system. The MTA ususally tries to match frequency with ridership, so it would be a mismatch.

The third market posited, fast service to the Rockaways, is the weakest. The stations in the Rockaways are some of the least busy in the subway system, with only a few hundreds of thousands of annual boardings each. They only support 15-minute service, with half of the A trains terminating at Ozone Park; since there are two Rockaway branches, the less busy only gets a shuttle except at rush hour, when there is enough demand for a few direct trains. Even with 15-minute service, it’s expensive to serve an area so far away with a flat fare; until a series of fare unifications, the subway charged a higher fare to stations in the Rockaways.

The Rockaway Cutoff | Pedestrian Observations

And south of Rego Park the article mentions the area by the line is relatively lightly developed.
I understand that. It's all secondary to having a higher turnaround for the main trunk in Queen. Way after that comes more one-seat rides to the airtrain terminal, service in areas that previously have had no rapid transit service, additional access for the communities of the rockaway, and additional access for other people to the rockaways beach and the casino. However, the combination of all these things does make it seem like a pretty good idea though I am interested in other alternate service patterns.
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:42 PM
 
3,245 posts, read 4,494,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
The SAS will eventually ... go to the Bronx. This make take another 100 years, LOL, but it will happen eventually.
Should have had at least 3, and probably 4 tracks, for express service.
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