Flatbush Brooklyn (Florida, Howard: transplants, real estate, apartments)

[SeventhFloor]

boundaries: avenue h to the south, parkside ave to the north, ocean avenue to the west, nostrand avenue to the east (the way i see it)

served by Q diamond, 2 and 5 trains
this is a pretty easy commute to manhattan (15-20 mins from church ave to canal st on Q diamond)
how long do you think before rent/co-op/condo prices in this area begin to surge? is this neighborhood one of the last best-kept secrets for the working class?

what are some of the problems of this neighborhood if any, and what can be done to change it?

just wanted to spark up some conversation about an area that we dont talk much about and to get off the bronx for a minute....

[scatman]

Originally Posted by SeventhFloor

boundaries: avenue h to the south, parkside ave to the north, ocean avenue to the west, nostrand avenue to the east (the way i see it)

served by Q diamond, 2 and 5 trains
this is a pretty easy commute to manhattan (15-20 mins from church ave to canal st on Q diamond)
how long do you think before rent/co-op/condo prices in this area begin to surge? is this neighborhood one of the last best-kept secrets for the working class?

what are some of the problems of this neighborhood if any, and what can be done to change it?

just wanted to spark up some conversation about an area that we dont talk much about and to get off the bronx for a minute....

Flatbush has mostly coops. Not many condos. My mom lives in a coop in Flatbush. The Norma Apartments and sister Phillip Howard may be the best run coops there are. However, it's coop board is strict and they want that 30% up front!

I've looked at The Norma, but I wanted a condo where the whole unit is my own, as opposed to shares. I also looked at coops in the Brooklyn College area. Very well, treelined area, but I passed, mainly due to the high maintenance, and other factors. But that's just me.

I will definitely agree that it's a best kept secret....1BR coops are still under $200K, and a few 2BR's are under $250K. But it won't be that way for long. I forgot to add many, many 1-family homes, but minimum at $600K. Oh, yeah, coming soon.......Target Mall!!!!!!!

Pros....
1) Great transportation
2) Still affordable coops
3) Many 1-family homes
4) Brooklyn College
5) Flatbush Avenune/Nostrand major commercial strip, plus coming mall

Cons....
1) Coops won't be affordable for long, still appreciating
2) 1-family homes min $600K
3) Flatbush/Nostrand can be a bit desolate at night
4) Good coops have real strict coop boards; high maintainance fee in some
5) Not many condos, although that is changing

[Wild Style]

Seventh

Is pay increasing enough to sustain something like that?

with no more ARMs, credit crunch and mad defaults on homes left and right I don't see how these prices can continue to be sustained.

[SeventhFloor]

what prices...the rates for coops currently in flatbush?

[Wild Style]

SeventhFloor


My question was more a over all question as it relates to Brooklyn. I mean to say do you think prices can keep going up and up when income isn't keeping pace or am I wrong, is pay keeping pace with these outrages rents and mortgages?

[Guywithacause]

NYC is a global market...as such...you may believe the local incomes have a direct correlation to real estate prices, but the reality is it has little to do with housing in this city. When the average HH income in the city is $40,000, clearly there are other factors at play that support the expensive real estate, upscale amenities, luxury services, and high cost of living. Prices may seem unaffordable for locals, but it is a downright bargain for Europeans...who are gobbling up real estate around the city. The demand continues in the city...and prices are continuing to escalate, although not as greatly as the past 4 years. Nonetheless...the global market is stepping in to support prices.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

SeventhFloor


My question was more a over all question as it relates to Brooklyn. I mean to say do you think prices can keep going up and up when income isn't keeping pace or am I wrong, is pay keeping pace with these outrages rents and mortgages?

nahh i dont think the pay scale has anything to do with it cause a lot of transplants are coming in.....thats why u got some people paying 1900 p/mo rent and 825 p/mo in the same building. i mean its all a cycle to me what goes up must come down.

[Guywithacause]

what goes up does not necessarily have to come down..and we know many example why thats true. I am glad to see the influx of Europeans back in the NYC market...they have been out of the loop for awhile....always nice to see new faces coming into the city. Not sure if they are going to be buying in areas in transition like Flatbush, Mott Haven, Bed-Stuy, etc...however the continual rise in prices will continue to push people to these areas and help add new flavor and life to these communities. I welcome everyone!

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

NYC is a global market...as such...you may believe the local incomes have a direct correlation to real estate prices, but the reality is it has little to do with housing in this city. When the average HH income in the city is $40,000, clearly there are other factors at play that support the expensive real estate, upscale amenities, luxury services, and high cost of living. Prices may seem unaffordable for locals, but it is a downright bargain for Europeans...who are gobbling up real estate around the city. The demand continues in the city...and prices are continuing to escalate, although not as greatly as the past 4 years. Nonetheless...the global market is stepping in to support prices.

No doubt, but a lot of this stuff was funded by ARMs and Interest only loans and all these other exotic loans. Thats why you are seeing the sea of fore closures in Queens and Bk. I read this article on NYT that said although its on the low, people are realizing these ARMs are reaching into middle income NYC areas as well. I'm from Brooklyn but live down south now. I have seen the same thing happen in Miami, and they are going belly up right now. Yeah people from over seas have come in and bought some things but not enough to offset the amount of real estate coming onto the market (foreclosures and such). It seems like NYC is a few to a year behind where Miami is that or NYC is in some magical bubble. NYT even did a piece on some area in Far Rockaway and to see what is going on in some of those areas is just absurd (again fore closures)

Even if people are coming out of state and moving to the city right, my thing is they still have to work. They have to be able to sustain those monthlies, unless their money is long like that. If the average income is 40,000 and they are coming in to the city pulling down 40,000 or whatever, how can they sustain themselves. I guess only time will tell how this is going to play out. NYC, in my opinion, is down playing the real estate issue, but again only time will tell.

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

what goes up does not necessarily have to come down..and we know many example why thats true. I am glad to see the influx of Europeans back in the NYC market...they have been out of the loop for awhile....always nice to see new faces coming into the city. Not sure if they are going to be buying in areas in transition like Flatbush, Mott Haven, Bed-Stuy, etc...however the continual rise in prices will continue to push people to these areas and help add new flavor and life to these communities. I welcome everyone!

Prices can only be as high as the local market can sustain. There is no where on the face of earth that defies that fact. At least not to my knowledge.

[Guywithacause]

Wildstyle....foreclosures are in fact NOT hitting the NYC market the way it is hammering places like FLorida, Nevada, California, etc. Prices have escalated dramatically across all of these regions, including NYC, however the financial engine of the country is not in Florida, Nevada, or California...it is in NYC. Prices remain strong and growing because the demand (locally, nationally and internationally) has not abated, and in the case of Internationally...has grown substantially as the Euro is the highest it has ever been against the dollar.

The NYC market is not based on a local market...it never has been in the recent past. It is based on the many waves of immigration, Wall-Street, national wealth, and global wealth...none of which have anything to do with local market salaries the same way everyother area in the country must live by. Furthermore, rampant speculation/investors have fueled much of the exorbitant increases in areas like Miami, whereas true wealth is concentrating in NYC..not random speculators.

As a result...what you see in NYC is very different than what you see in the rest of the country. The city has the financial backing of the national economy as well as international wealth, plus the unending demand of national and international transplants...which is why prices continue to escalate and forclosures are minimal.