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It's all about being near Manhattan. Near the Central Park of Philadelphia (Fairmont park), there is row after row after row of spectacular Victorian town homes, most directly over looking the park. Yet they are completely boarded up and anyone who values their money & well being would not go anywhere near them with a ten foot pole. If that were Manhattan, on the other hand, they would be going for $5M to $10M instead of being available at auction for the default price of back property taxes
Yes this is true, I'm referring to the taxes and why they are not high. Many people have owned these brownstones for many years, and bought them much cheaper a long time ago, but are selling them at the prices that they can get now. The taxes are lower, because they really are not worth it other than as you are stating being in Manhattan and near the subway.
A person would have to be a millionaire at least 1 million to buy these. Which today is not a lot of money. Most of these brownstones stay on the market a long time before they sell. A very long time, and when they do they are back on the market in 2 years. Most with work continuing and never finished each time.
The people buying usually don't think or need to consider schools because they either don't have children or because of the low taxes can live with the convenience of Manhattan and send their children to private school.
If the taxes are higher they will move to the suburbs and a better school district.
This is already happening to several condo apt buildings that have outlived their tax abatements everyone is scrambling to sell.
Questions of tax equity aside, and to the originl qiuestion of will gentrification continue, I think that the answer is yes, especially in cities that are attractive to global wealth. These are the people who uses expensive real estate as a place-holder for their assets, and these people flock to certain cities like London, NYC, Washington, San Fran, Boston, and LA. that they consider "safe havens" for their money. They don't necessarily live in those $30 million homes, but they do see them as a store of value for their fortunes that they can visit every once in a while. So developers figure its easier to build and sell luxury housing rather than middle class housing and proceed to do so.
Then you combine that with the big trend of the domestic upper-middle class turning away from suburbia more often and toward the cities now that they're safer, and with better public schools (in select neighborhoods) and it's not hard to figure out why prices, for renting and buying, keep going up in all but the most ratchet neighborhoods. The big demand in most cities now is for larger homes and apartments, not studios and 1 bedrooms, and that's another factor squeezing rents almost everywhere in these "global" cities.
In a generation or two the global US cities will be like Paris, with the affluent in the city limits and many of the poor pushed beyond them, or at best into the outlying extremeities of the city. I don't see anything reversing this trend.
Only reason they didn't outright steal your house is because their is a nice way and ugly way of doing it. Moreover 2 sides to every story. For every person living there that is against it, you got 2 who is for it, and even more who don't care. If they did care they would own and not rent the idk 50-60 years they inhabited the place yeah this shout out to Harlem. Everyone knows rent cost just as much as owning nowadays, but people still rent after living there for GENERATIONS
Moreover lets be real Harlem IS a dump and hasn't been properly taken care of. Same goes for a lot of places that undergo gentrification Woodlawn-Brooklyn-Hell's Kitchen. No one has the gall to say it but it is what it is. Gentrification is just a nice term for taking out what MANY consider to be trash. Yes it is that ugly nor do I agree, but engage in any conversation with someone who is for it that is exactly what they'll say more or less. "Before there were problems, now that I'm living here and they moving out no problems". It all comes down to money and in a lot of cases community is to blame. A lot of places where gentrification occurs what do they most have in common:
Poor education system
No unity
Lack of support.
In order to fix gentrification, for starters you need to speak on THEIR level, under THEIR terms, and learn THEIR world. Doing rallies to raise awareness and engaging in unproductive BS meets or public conferences are just that. BS meets and conferences. You never hear those against gentrification talk in dollars and that is the problem and that is why it'll continue. Believe me all the developer is saying in his mind is, "Ha Ha Ha HA, Ha, L-M-A-O" cause the opposition is a joke. For example, you say Boston is going to slow down gentrification seriously, everyone knows gentrification a long process. Look how long it took to gentrify Hell's Kitchen, Harlem, Westchester (interesting here), Woodlawn. Years and still ongoing.
I think this is somewhat insulting to the poor people who live in these neighborhoods. They have brains do they not? What's to stop them from going out and getting an education? Or pursuing better types of jobs? Or maybe pursuing better lives elsewhere?
Rather than just whine and be negative, those living in ethnic neighborhoods have three options.
Move into a higher tax bracket.
Move out of New York.
Organize into some sort of tenant rights group and fight against the rent changes or other things they perceive as holding them back.
If they do none of the three yes, they will end up in the streets of NYC and it will be there for passively sitting on their asses and complaining. They do not have the luxury of sitting back and going after theory after theory. Some sort of action is needed.
You are right. I see no mass effort to end what is happening as they will continue to be priced out of their neighborhoods.
They can simply move out of their neighborhoods yes. As far as education goes, many simply do not want an education or see the value of it, or perceive it as something far out of their reach. Perhaps a tenants rights group with realistic and achievable goals would be something more doable.
But im 100% in agreement that complaining wont change the situation.
Only reason they didn't outright steal your house is because their is a nice way and ugly way of doing it. Moreover 2 sides to every story. For every person living there that is against it, you got 2 who is for it, and even more who don't care. If they did care they would own and not rent the idk 50-60 years they inhabited the place yeah this shout out to Harlem. Everyone knows rent cost just as much as owning nowadays, but people still rent after living there for GENERATIONS
Moreover lets be real Harlem IS a dump and hasn't been properly taken care of. Same goes for a lot of places that undergo gentrification Woodlawn-Brooklyn-Hell's Kitchen. No one has the gall to say it but it is what it is. Gentrification is just a nice term for taking out what MANY consider to be trash. Yes it is that ugly nor do I agree, but engage in any conversation with someone who is for it that is exactly what they'll say more or less. "Before there were problems, now that I'm living here and they moving out no problems". It all comes down to money and in a lot of cases community is to blame. A lot of places where gentrification occurs what do they most have in common:
Poor education system
No unity
Lack of support.
In order to fix gentrification, for starters you need to speak on THEIR level, under THEIR terms, and learn THEIR world. Doing rallies to raise awareness and engaging in unproductive BS meets or public conferences are just that. BS meets and conferences. You never hear those against gentrification talk in dollars and that is the problem and that is why it'll continue. Believe me all the developer is saying in his mind is, "Ha Ha Ha HA, Ha, L-M-A-O" cause the opposition is a joke. For example, you say Boston is going to slow down gentrification seriously, everyone knows gentrification a long process. Look how long it took to gentrify Hell's Kitchen, Harlem, Westchester (interesting here), Woodlawn. Years and still ongoing.
I agree with some of these points also. MONEY TALKS and these residents simply don't have it.
Its not called "priced out" by accident.
They do not have the business capital, largesse, or accumulation of resources that these gentrifiers have. But still whining and complaining will be just that...complaining.
Questions of tax equity aside, and to the originl qiuestion of will gentrification continue, I think that the answer is yes, especially in cities that are attractive to global wealth. These are the people who uses expensive real estate as a place-holder for their assets, and these people flock to certain cities like London, NYC, Washington, San Fran, Boston, and LA. that they consider "safe havens" for their money. They don't necessarily live in those $30 million homes, but they do see them as a store of value for their fortunes that they can visit every once in a while. So developers figure its easier to build and sell luxury housing rather than middle class housing and proceed to do so.
Then you combine that with the big trend of the domestic upper-middle class turning away from suburbia more often and toward the cities now that they're safer, and with better public schools (in select neighborhoods) and it's not hard to figure out why prices, for renting and buying, keep going up in all but the most ratchet neighborhoods. The big demand in most cities now is for larger homes and apartments, not studios and 1 bedrooms, and that's another factor squeezing rents almost everywhere in these "global" cities.
In a generation or two the global US cities will be like Paris, with the affluent in the city limits and many of the poor pushed beyond them, or at best into the outlying extremeities of the city. I don't see anything reversing this trend.
Only young millennial kids of middle class who are from the suburbs are moving into cities, millennial kids that are from cities are moving to the suburbs. Also cities are still not safe, their are still plenty of quality life issues that needs to be addressed in plenty of Americas big cities, a good example is illegal drug trade is never going to go away even with gentrification, also robbery and burglary is a big problem in trendy areas. As for public schools? Gentrification is not going ot change that, most of the young folks who move to lower income neighborhoods are not starting famiilies or having out of wedlock babies like the masses of uneducated locals who have kids at whim. Public schools are not going to get better anytime soon. If anything the gentry folks will prefer privatized education such as Charter, and private and to a lesser degree Parochial. For bigger homes and apartments in cities NYC, Boston, DC and SF do not have enough space for big apartments or homes, smaller cities with a dense urban core and sprawlish suburbs seems to be the future of living in America which offers urbanity but also suburban style living. A good example are cities like Austin, LA, OKC, Charlotte and Raleigh. NYC is limited by land and even if the city is built skyward, apartments will get smaller and prices will still by high!
Also last I have noted that some young millennials that I know of do head back home after picking up work experience in NYC as well as other big cities. Unless they end up getting an high paying job, those that are lucky enough will stay and probably invest in staying in NYC or other big urban areas. Again not all college educated millennials will get a big corporate job with a nice payout. One last thing about gentrification is that its not on a macro level. Gentrification only works in a micro level and it takes time for gentrification to occur. NYC can not benefit on gentrification on a larger scale because only parts of NYC near Manhattan experience gentrification. Some of the cities stable middle class nabes are far flung from Manhattan and do not need any gentrification, a good example are places such as Forest Hills and much of Eastern Queens, Bay ridge, Parkchester, Coop City and all of Staten Island. The thing is that a huge brunt of the cities population who are low income and to a certain degree middle income like Astoria, Greenpoint and Woodside nabes are very close to Manhattan and these folks are feeling the pinch and pull of gentrification. In the longrun of things gentrification is not a valuable solution because most of its residents can not benefit from gentrification economically except those that own property or own a businesses. Cities are more suistainable with a large percentage of middle class folks.
Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 03-08-2014 at 11:23 PM..
You are right. I see no mass effort to end what is happening as they will continue to be priced out of their neighborhoods.
They can simply move out of their neighborhoods yes. As far as education goes, many simply do not want an education or see the value of it, or perceive it as something far out of their reach. Perhaps a tenants rights group with realistic and achievable goals would be something more doable.
But im 100% in agreement that complaining wont change the situation.
Well, inner city ethnic doesn't equal DUMB, and I have known people to go back to school in order to change careers, as well as younger people going to college right out of school. It's obviously not everyone, but it's not a small percentage of people, either. So moving into high tax brackets is something that some people are doing.
And yes, others do leave. And as I said, tenant organization is an option.
There's a lot of tenant organizing in East Harlem. After being told they wouldn't have gas for months, residents of the NYCHA building organized a rent strike.
Each person on an individual level will have to decide whether it makes better since to go out and get a better education and better job, to move, to do tenant organizing or some combination of the three.
Also last I have noted that some young millennials that I know of do head back home after picking up work experience in NYC as well as other big cities. Unless they end up getting an high paying job, those that are lucky enough will stay and probably invest in staying in NYC or other big urban areas. Again not all college educated millennials will get a big corporate job with a nice payout. One last thing about gentrification is that its not on a macro level. Gentrification only works in a micro level and it takes time for gentrification to occur. NYC can not benefit on gentrification on a larger scale because only parts of NYC near Manhattan experience gentrification. Some of the cities stable middle class nabes are far flung from Manhattan and do not need any gentrification, a good example are places such as Forest Hills and much of Eastern Queens, Bay ridge, Parkchester, Coop City and all of Staten Island. The thing is that a huge brunt of the cities population who are low income and to a certain degree middle income like Astoria, Greenpoint and Woodside nabes are very close to Manhattan and these folks are feeling the pinch and pull of gentrification. In the longrun of things gentrification is not a valuable solution because most of its residents can not benefit from gentrification economically except those that own property or own a businesses. Cities are more suistainable with a large percentage of middle class folks.
Dude, you're sound like a broken record. LOL
Check the links I just posted on tenant organizing. Did you get yourself involved in such a movement? If you're not getting involved in activism to fight this, there is no reason or no need to complain since it doesn't appear like you're trying to make things better. Enough with the economic theories, because at the end of the day the real estate industry doesn't give a ****. Either you got the money or you're out the door. And if you want to stay you'd better find ways of getting a high paying job.
The city, btw has an excess of low income people and can do without them. Besides, a certain number of low income people will just live in basements or 6 people to an apartment (or worse). Does the real estate industry give a damn? Not at all!
Check the links I just posted on tenant organizing. Did you get yourself involved in such a movement? If you're not getting involved in activism to fight this, there is no reason or no need to complain since it doesn't appear like you're trying to make things better. Enough with the economic theories, because at the end of the day the real estate industry doesn't give a ****. Either you got the money or you're out the door. And if you want to stay you'd better find ways of getting a high paying job.
The city, btw has an excess of low income people and can do without them. Besides, a certain number of low income people will just live in basements or 6 people to an apartment (or worse). Does the real estate industry give a damn? Not at all!
All I'm saying is this, is that the whole city is not going to gentrify that is all. If all of NYC gentrifies than maybe pigs will fly some day. Don't get me wrong I have gotten involved in meetings about gentrification and quality of life issues. Hell I was even at the South Bronx gentrification conference a couple of months back In matter of fact I've signed up to help high school students with tutoring in science and history at a local community center for up coming regents exams. Event ex Mayor Bloomberg has said the reason why NYC has so many poor is that many are uneducated and he is right about that. So again I feel the need to give back.
I really can't do much and I also have my own agenda that I'm working with as well, like whether or not if this year I should visit Atlanta, Dallas or San Diego as possible moving options. Currently I have taken up tech hobbies to experiment with such as software coding, I backed a start-up device called leap motion which I use and experiment with so I can code for it, and I'm experimenting with quadcopter drones not to us as a hobby but also as a technology.
I cant really do much about gentrification, I talk with people about it in my area and some say they are moving out of the city, blacks will say down South, while Ricans mention either PA or Florida. But overall many are afraid and worried about it except for drug dealers and criminals who will feed off the gentry types. Right behind me where I live are some German looking Brownstones and newly renovated affordable coops or rentals which used to be NYCHA buildings, yeah some white folks live on 136st now because I see them washing clothes at my local Laundromat. Gentrification does a good job circumnavigating projects and poverty stricken tenements. The only advice I can give is go to school or stay in school for young folks, or pick up a trade which can bring in a middle to high income. But then again with college debt mounting for many their is still no proof that a college education may end poverty especially for those who come from low income backgrounds who are economically at a disadvantage. For those who are lucky, some can remain in low income housing such as rent controlled apartments and or NYCHA. Hell in some cases NYCHA is not even cheap anymore. Actually the South Bronx is going to be brunt of the gentrification war.
NYC will always be a POS city no matter what happens and will always be a POS city for years to come. Same way how Marie Antoinette the wife of the French King Louis the XVI, she said let the poor eat cake. The Transplants and who ever can have NYC on a silver sterling platter fresh out of the Peruvian mines. The only thing I like about gentrification is the childless, laidback open-minded women.
Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 03-09-2014 at 04:46 AM..
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