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Maybe if the schools didn't try so hard to whitewash everything and brainwash everyone, blacks and hispanics would do much better in school. Sometimes you gotta just see things for what they are.
Very good points. The major flaw I see in many of those merely advocating lowering the bar or using other standards is that it neglects what ought to be the primary concern: Discovering the reasons for underperformance for these groups and doing the neccessary things to change this.
The primary reason for the difference in performance btw these groups is culture and parenting. Some people are uncomfortable with the non-PC implications of all group cultures not being equal and they refuse to engage in any anlysis that they believe constitutes "blaming the victim".
I think it's very useful to encourage two parent households and parental engagement in education for all communities. I am also not for lowing admission standards, but there are serious flaws in this process as it currently exists. I don't think we should blindly emulate Asian culture either to put it bluntly. Yes, there are very positive aspects, but the test prep culture is not one of them, and we should seek to limit it's influence in the specialized high schools.
If the government or private companies are excluded people because of their race or are institutionalizing discrimination, that's wrong and that needs to be addressed.
But if less of one group for whatever reason choses not to go to universities (and if it's choice, not discrimination) the government should not do anything. It's up to individual people to decide what they want to do with their lives.
I've had dental work done at Columbia dental school. There were more Asian dental students there than Black dental students. So what? Unless Columbia is actively excluded Black applicants (they're not) there should be no problem. To me this is political correctness run amok and people are picking a pet stupid cause, kind of like saves the whales. Or feed the poor starving third world children (when they are paying an actor God knows how much money to do the commercial for the charity).
Free choice and a lot of other libertarian ideals achieve equitable and fair outcomes when you assume people have adequate resources and capabilities to make informed decisions. Saying that doesn't make me a raving socialist. These are not grown adults we are talking about. They are children who don't get to decide what circumstances they are born into, and those circumstances play a large role in shaping decisions these children will make later on. I don't mind expending resources to make sure enough children are getting a legit opportunity to succeed, and then letting them choose the route they want to take.
Maybe if the schools didn't try so hard to whitewash everything and brainwash everyone, blacks and hispanics would do much better in school. Sometimes you gotta just see things for what they are.
Math is math no matter what your cultural or racial background is. Asians get in because they score high in math, not because they are whitewashed or brainwashed. 2 + 2 = 4 and that is not just because the man told me so.
Free choice and a lot of other libertarian ideals achieve equitable and fair outcomes when you assume people have adequate resources and capabilities to make informed decisions. Saying that doesn't make me a raving socialist. These are not grown adults we are talking about. They are children who don't get to decide what circumstances they are born into, and those circumstances play a large role in shaping decisions these children will make later on. I don't mind expending resources to make sure enough children are getting a legit opportunity to succeed, and then letting them choose the route they want to take.
They do indeed have adequate resources and capabilities to make informed decisions. Not everyone will make the decisions you want or prefer them to make.
The consensus of this thread seems to be everyone should want an upper middle class career. Not everyone does. Not everyone wants to be a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer. There are all sorts of jobs for all sorts of people.
The talk about education remains just that, talk, as the majority of the people worldwide work working class jobs that do not require a college education. That will never change.
The majority of people in NYC, like any other place, do not have college degrees. The number of people working in retail and low end services far outnumbers the professional jobs.
Math is math no matter what your cultural or racial background is. Asians get in because they score high in math, not because they are whitewashed or brainwashed. 2 + 2 = 4 and that is not just because the man told me so.
I agree with you on that, even tho some people are just not good at it,
but some of those other subjects are hard to comprehend and memorize
if they seem to be caca and contrived from the outset.
They do indeed have adequate resources and capabilities to make informed decisions. Not everyone will make the decisions you want or prefer them to make.
The consensus of this thread seems to be everyone should want an upper middle class career. Not everyone does. Not everyone wants to be a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer. There are all sorts of jobs for all sorts of people.
The talk about education remains just that, talk, as the majority of the people worldwide work working class jobs that do not require a college education. That will never change.
The majority of people in NYC, like any other place, do not have college degrees. The number of people working in retail and low end services far outnumbers the professional jobs.
I question whether many minorities do have adaquate resources to make that decision. Without first hand knowledge, I'm assuming that most kids take a pass thinking that they have no chance at passing. That in itself is not making an informed decision. Once they believe that they have a shot perhaps more of them will take the necessary steps to improve. Even if they don't get in they'll still get something out of it. But maybe I'm assuming too much and this is already what is taking place.
I think instilling confidence goes a LONG way. If a kid isn't getting it at home, school, or elsewhere, he's going to struggle on not only the standardized tests but other areas as well. Parents need to encourage and challenge their kids. My daughter, for example, tends to get frustrated and give up easily if she is confronted with something that she can't figure out right away. We are patiently working with her on this and trying to get her confidence up. She's a bright student and tends to pick things up pretty quickly but when she's out of her "comfort zone" instead of being determined to figure it out, she tends to give up. I also challenge her by repeatedly asking her questions based on areas where she had trouble. She gives me grief because she'd rather play her Kindle, but I'm persistent until she truly understands. A confident kid will tune out all background noise and tackle a test without a doubt. Confident kids will not let things like race and maybe even social status hold them back. While I think teachers can help in building a student's confidence, it really falls on us as parents to do this and not give up on the child. It takes time. Lowering standards, in my opinion, is NOT building confidence at all.
I agree that course material should not be so disparate from what is being given on these specialized tests. Regents level material should be the ONLY material taught..if the kid can't get it, then they will need to attend summer school or a plan should be worked out to help them. I think that I was an overall good student in school because my mother gave me the confidence and tools to help me succeed. I had teachers who went above and beyond to help me along the way. I was very fortunate.
I agree with you on that, even tho some people are just not good at it,
but some of those other subjects are hard to comprehend and memorize
if they seem to be caca and contrived from the outset.
I'm not sure that I believe the idea that some people just aren't good at math. I think some just do not have the proper discipline or guidance or just believe it is a useless set of theories (or just find it boring as *****). But it develops ones logic that can become very beneficial in the real World.
I question whether many minorities do have adaquate resources to make that decision. Without first hand knowledge, I'm assuming that most kids take a pass thinking that they have no chance at passing. That in itself is not making an informed decision. Once they believe that they have a shot perhaps more of them will take the necessary steps to improve. Even if they don't get in they'll still get something out of it. But maybe I'm assuming too much and this is already what is taking place.
Yep, you're on to something...if kids keep hearing that they have no chance at passing, they're not going to even try. If you lower the standards, you're basically telling the AA/Hispanic kids that they somehow need help. No, what needs to be done is to not lower the bar but help provide tools to meet the bar. If they are having difficulty with certain concepts, then work with them. I know a lot of this has to be done at home but for those who aren't getting it, it'd be nice if mentorship had greater visibility than it does. (Maybe it does--it's been a while since I've been in HS). Mentors can help those kids who have parents who, for whatever reason, can't be there for their kids' needs. It's not just about academics, but life skills too. Back in the day, they had the Girls and Boys Clubs, or corporate people mentoring at risk students. Those were good programs...
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