Is the West Bronx considered to be part of the territory encompassed by the old feared "South Bronx/Fort Apache" image? (Morris: real estate)
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Is what is referred to as the West Bronx (i.e., the greater Grand Concourse area encompassing Yankee Stadium, the courthouses and municipal buildings, Bronx Lebanon Hospital, et al and nearby environs) considered as well to be part of the territory encompassed by the old feared "South Bronx/Fort Apache” designation and public image?
Or, instead, does the former "South Bronx/Fort Apache” designation just apply to the neighborhoods and areas even further south of the so-named "West Bronx" such as Melrose, Mott Haven, Port Morris, and Hunts Point?
Or are both the greater Grand Concourse area and the neighborhoods of Melrose, Mott Haven, Port Morris, and Hunts Point (and any others not mentioned here?) all lumped together into being called "The South Bronx" or more precisely "The Southwestern Bronx" and were all of them included within the past media designation and image that was given the label "The "South Bronx/Fort Apache”?
Is what is referred to as the West Bronx (i.e., the greater Grand Concourse area encompassing Yankee Stadium, the courthouses and municipal buildings, Bronx Lebanon Hospital, et al and nearby environs) considered as well to be part of the territory encompassed by the old feared "South Bronx/Fort Apache” designation and public image?
Or, instead, does the former "South Bronx/Fort Apache” designation just apply to the neighborhoods and areas even further south of the so-named "West Bronx" such as Melrose, Mott Haven, Port Morris, and Hunts Point?
Or are both the greater Grand Concourse area and the neighborhoods of Melrose, Mott Haven, Port Morris, and Hunts Point (and any others not mentioned here?) all lumped together into being called "The South Bronx" or more precisely "The Southwestern Bronx" and were all of them included within the past media designation and image that was given the label "The "South Bronx/Fort Apache”?
No none of these neighborhoods were Fort Apache. Fort Apache was specifically the Longwood neighborhood east side of the start of Intervale Ave south of East 163 over to Hunts Point Ave. Curving up Intervale to Freeman and Louis Nine Blvd going back south to Hunts Point Ave and Southern Blvd.
This was Fort Apache. Nothing else. Many other parts suffered fires and decay and were lumped into Fort Apache. But this section was horrible before the fires. The other sections changed later. There really was nothing like Fort Apache its Manhattan counterpart would have been Southwest Harlem now referred to as SoHa by the real estate industry.
A visual comparison is the first Shaft movie shot around 116th St and FDB in the early 70's. Fort Apache looked like that also just more Hispanic. Even though both Black and Hispanic lived in both of these sections. This was before the fires. Fort Apache itself was really the 41st precinct.
Look up the film "80 Blocks from Tiffany's" 1979 documentary of the area, to get an insiders glimpse to life in that area. You can see the entire film on Youtube.
The "South Bronx" of infamy on the west stretched north all the way to Fordham Blvd, and on the east side through Castle Hill. However, the "South Bronx" term no longer has merit, as each neighborhood is now asserting its identity, and demographics are changing, albeit slowly. The "South Bronx" IMO goes until about 163rd street, and the Central Bronx goes until Fordham, and the rest is the North Bronx.
In my opinion Fort Apache and South Bronx are not the same thing. The history is not the same. Fort Apache was just the worst place in the Bronx, like Riverdale was/is the best places in the Bronx.
The south Bronx does go until 163rd and the Central Bronx goes to Fordham this is true.
But the Concourse, Yankee Stadium, the Municiple Buidlings, and Bronx Lebanon were not part of Fort Apache.
Melrose, Mott Haven, Port Morris, and Hunts Point are also part of the South Bronx and also experienced decay and fires but these areas were not as bad as Fort Apache prior to the fires. Also the OP's sense of direction is off, these areas are south east Bronx. Jerome Ave is the East/West boundary in the South Bronx.
In my opinion Fort Apache and South Bronx are not the same thing. The history is not the same. Fort Apache was just the worst place in the Bronx, like Riverdale was/is the best places in the Bronx.
The south Bronx does go until 163rd and the Central Bronx goes to Fordham this is true.
But the Concourse, Yankee Stadium, the Municiple Buidlings, and Bronx Lebanon were not part of Fort Apache.
Melrose, Mott Haven, Port Morris, and Hunts Point are also part of the South Bronx and also experienced decay and fires but these areas were not as bad as Fort Apache prior to the fires. Also the OP's sense of direction is off, these areas are south east Bronx. Jerome Ave is the East/West boundary in the South Bronx.
Thank you for your responses.
I had thought that the the Throgs Neck neighborhood would be deemed as the "southeast Bronx". Looking at Google Maps for the "Bronx", it appears that Throgs Neck should be considered to simply be the "East Bronx" . . . although Baychester (Co-op City) is also on the eastern side of the Bronx but I had thought of that area as the "Northeast Bronx".
About all the different designations in quotemarks, it is unclear to me if these are official political/legal designations of these jurisdictions or instead they serve more as unofficial colloquial terms made up by the public or by the media.
The "South Bronx" of infamy on the west stretched north all the way to Fordham Blvd, and on the east side through Castle Hill. However, the "South Bronx" term no longer has merit, as each neighborhood is now asserting its identity, and demographics are changing, albeit slowly. The "South Bronx" IMO goes until about 163rd street, and the Central Bronx goes until Fordham, and the rest is the North Bronx.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MottHaven4U
The "South Bronx" of infamy on the west stretched north all the way to Fordham Blvd, and on the east side through Castle Hill. However, the "South Bronx" term no longer has merit, as each neighborhood is now asserting its identity, and demographics are changing, albeit slowly. The "South Bronx" IMO goes until about 163rd street, and the Central Bronx goes until Fordham, and the rest is the North Bronx.
Thank you for your borders definition.
I'll try to plot out the borders you provided (along with commentator DAS's provided info) in Google Maps to figure it out visually (not being a Bronx native or present Bronx resident).
Is what is referred to as the West Bronx (i.e., the greater Grand Concourse area encompassing Yankee Stadium, the courthouses and municipal buildings, Bronx Lebanon Hospital, et al and nearby environs) considered as well to be part of the territory encompassed by the old feared "South Bronx/Fort Apache” designation and public image?
Or, instead, does the former "South Bronx/Fort Apache” designation just apply to the neighborhoods and areas even further south of the so-named "West Bronx" such as Melrose, Mott Haven, Port Morris, and Hunts Point?
Or are both the greater Grand Concourse area and the neighborhoods of Melrose, Mott Haven, Port Morris, and Hunts Point (and any others not mentioned here?) all lumped together into being called "The South Bronx" or more precisely "The Southwestern Bronx" and were all of them included within the past media designation and image that was given the label "The "South Bronx/Fort Apache”?
Fort Apache was a nickname for the 41st Precinct. The cops give nicknames to their stationhouses based on their reputation, with "Fort" included.
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