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Old 12-26-2007, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 913,637 times
Reputation: 209
Scatman...tearing down those projects is the smartest thing they ever did. They were a haven for drugs and crime (of course), besides the fact that they were structurally unsound and many apts were vacant and completely uninhabitable anyway. Instead of maintaining this horrendous development, they are choosing to do the right thing for the ENTIRE community, not just poor people, and tearing them down to make affordable housing, which will serve the ENTIRE community, INCLUDING the poor, instead of JUST the poor...which is why these developments were horrendous to begin with.

I applaud them for the guts to go against the grain and do the right thing. The new development will not only serve ALL of the community, it will be a benchmark for how to change/improve a community...making into a healthy, stable, integrated place for people to thrive instead of rot...at least that is the theory behind it.

As for NYC, I have learned to NEVER say NEVER. Who thought 60 years ago that the Bronx, the "country" of the city, would turn into a urban wasteland? Never right? Who would have thought the twin towers would be struck by planes and toppled? Never right? Who thought 20 years ago that Mott Haven of all places would be selling $750,000 luxury condos. Never right?

Everytime I say never I am almost always wrong....so as a result I do believe that the projects WILL be converted to some sort of affordable co-op/condo, or sold off to a private entity within the next 10 years..primarily because the astornomical costs will be too much for the city to bare...or want to bare. Conversion in some way...REAL affordable housing or ownerhsip...is the only solution....and since many think it will NEVER happen.....it probably will!

Any real info though on possible plans for the projects?
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Old 12-26-2007, 10:37 AM
 
11,151 posts, read 9,347,988 times
Reputation: 18531
One of the professors in my graduate program has a wonderful suggestion for helping to solve the chronic shortage of certified teachers in the city. He says that the city should provide subsidized housing for as long as teachers remain in the public schools.

How's about taking a couple of these projects, renovating/updating them, and offering them at below-market rates to teachers (as well as police officers and fire fighters)?

Not likely to happen, I know, but it would be nice. (Of course, I'm a NYC teacher, so I'm just somewhat biased ..... LOL)
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 913,637 times
Reputation: 209
Squuezebox..they are already doing that in Melrose. There is a brand new development that is targeted specifically for teachers in the city. Rents will be downright cheap and will be for teachers so long as they teach in NYC. Google it...it's a pretty cool perk!
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:21 AM
 
358 posts, read 1,398,188 times
Reputation: 163
The projects are a federal program. The only way a development would be changed is if they tore down the buildings and replaced them with mixed income townhouses, like in Chicago under the Hope VI program.
Privatizing any of the high rise projects? No, never going to happen. Learn more about public housing and you'll understand.
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 913,637 times
Reputation: 209
I understand that the projects are a federal program. However, the Hope VI program was a NEW program the government instituted to demolish the projects and create affordable housing in its place. Who is to say that the government would not make a Hope V program that would provide low-income residents of the projects the opportunity to buy their units??? To say that privatizing high rise projects, or anyother federal program is "never going to happen" means you do not understand how the government functions and changes with the times. Remember when privatizing Social Security was en-vogue? That is a federal program as well..but after review they decided NOT to privatize...there is no difference here. In time they will privatize the projects in some way, whether it is sold off, or made into affordable housing. My guess is within 10 years..

Never say never!
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Old 12-27-2007, 03:55 AM
 
358 posts, read 1,398,188 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
I understand that the projects are a federal program. However, the Hope VI program was a NEW program the government instituted to demolish the projects and create affordable housing in its place. Who is to say that the government would not make a Hope V program that would provide low-income residents of the projects the opportunity to buy their units??? To say that privatizing high rise projects, or anyother federal program is "never going to happen" means you do not understand how the government functions and changes with the times. Remember when privatizing Social Security was en-vogue? That is a federal program as well..but after review they decided NOT to privatize...there is no difference here. In time they will privatize the projects in some way, whether it is sold off, or made into affordable housing. My guess is within 10 years..

Never say never!
It took six years for Hope VI to even get approved into law. It has been 15 years since the program began, and as far as I know isn't even close to being completed. And this was a response to the crack epidemic, the worst period of violent crime in over a century if not the whole country's history, and projects that were in absolutely deplorable conditions. It was a response to projects like in Chicago, where cops were getting shot by snipers from apartments and gangs literally took over high rise buildings, complete with spotters on the roof with radios to watch out for cops while they conducted a massively profitable drug trade.

Again, it's federal. It's not a NYC only thing. HUD isn't going to come up with a new program and get it passed into law and complete the whole project within ten years, just for the sake of New York City wanting to make some cash on highly valuable land. If it was going to be changed, it would have been with Hope VI... as the reasons for it went far beyond "lets make some money". And given the very high cost of housing and high land values in NYC, I don't see how it would make sense to destroy high density residential zones for a density level that is really too low for the demand.

Social security is totally different. Those debates didn't involve the topic of displacing poor people from their homes.
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Old 12-27-2007, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 913,637 times
Reputation: 209
Milliano I have to disagree with you 100%. To think that NYC, or any company or entity in this country, will not do something that will "make them cash on highly valuable land" is a farce. Had it not been for the vehement, organized, and oftentimes violent protests of activists and community groups....much of the projects would have been long gone by now and the entire city would have been gentrified years ago. This country was born and bred on greed...and the government is no different.

I understand that the government can be painfully slow doing anything..that is the nature of a gargantuan bureaucracy afterall, however, the real argument was never about money or "destroying" high density housing. I do not believe the city will demolish the housing projects, however I do believe a change is brewing in how they are run. I believe that the housing projects will convert (not destroy) into a form of ownerhsip via income restruicted co-ops/condos (to preserve "affordability"), or be sold off to a private entity to run/manage.

Because of the skrocketing costs of doing anything in this city, and the monumental pension burdens the city will face (and the government) due to baby boomers, something will HAVE to be done. Its simple economics...and the city wont inflate taxes and scare off business, investment, and stagnate the economy just to continue to support this money pit and failed societal venture. It just won't happen..the city wont return to those days...and it does not have to.

This is not to say the poor are being displaced...far from it...the housing projects will just serve a different purpose...could be TRUE affordable rental housing with mixed incomes and not just the dumping ground for the indigent, thugs, and criminals...or owned cooperatively by low-income residents. Either way I believe in order for the city to progress, a change must occur, as the projects (and those that occupy them) are still the biggest deterrent to investment in the city...and thats what its all about.

As for Social Security...it is a federal program and no differnet than anyother. It can be changed, amended, or altogether ended in the same way that the housing projects can be. I recognize that HUD is not the decision maker, however the city/state CAN work with legislators to make the changes necessary...that's how the government functions. If you believe otherwise..you do not understand how laws are created and passed.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:54 PM
 
502 posts, read 1,477,546 times
Reputation: 192
Chicago was able to tear down their projects because they were able to relocate families and actually found places and housing to send those people. NYC isn't in the same condition to do it. Which is why the projects will not be torn down here.

Further, the projects are built stronger and better than a lot of these Fedders buildings selling for 500k-millions. Like the Kalahari building on 116th street. Did you all know that that is a Fedders building? I passed it the other day, the walls look paper thin? Just awful.

What would you tear down the projects for? To build what? Doesn't make sense.
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 913,637 times
Reputation: 209
Nobody is saying the projects are going to be torn down..or even that it is wise to do that. it just isnt wise because they are structurally sound and can be utilized in other ways rather than wasting time and money tearing them down and starting from scratch.

The thread is addressing the changing/closing of housing projects into something other than the dumping ground for the indigent, thugs, and low-lives. Tearing down the projects would be dumb, silly, and a gargantuan unrealistic task and so is not worth discussing.
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Bronx, New York
1,765 posts, read 4,057,541 times
Reputation: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Scatman...tearing down those projects is the smartest thing they ever did. They were a haven for drugs and crime (of course), besides the fact that they were structurally unsound and many apts were vacant and completely uninhabitable anyway. Instead of maintaining this horrendous development, they are choosing to do the right thing for the ENTIRE community, not just poor people, and tearing them down to make affordable housing, which will serve the ENTIRE community, INCLUDING the poor, instead of JUST the poor...which is why these developments were horrendous to begin with.

I applaud them for the guts to go against the grain and do the right thing. The new development will not only serve ALL of the community, it will be a benchmark for how to change/improve a community...making into a healthy, stable, integrated place for people to thrive instead of rot...at least that is the theory behind it.

As for NYC, I have learned to NEVER say NEVER. Who thought 60 years ago that the Bronx, the "country" of the city, would turn into a urban wasteland? Never right? Who would have thought the twin towers would be struck by planes and toppled? Never right? Who thought 20 years ago that Mott Haven of all places would be selling $750,000 luxury condos. Never right?

Everytime I say never I am almost always wrong....so as a result I do believe that the projects WILL be converted to some sort of affordable co-op/condo, or sold off to a private entity within the next 10 years..primarily because the astornomical costs will be too much for the city to bare...or want to bare. Conversion in some way...REAL affordable housing or ownerhsip...is the only solution....and since many think it will NEVER happen.....it probably will!

Any real info though on possible plans for the projects?
I'll disagree with ya on those PJ's in New Orleans. They WERE structurally sound. They stood up during Katrina very well. I saw a complex down there this past summer. Those bricks stood their ground. The reason it's dumb is that HANO (Housing Authority of New Orleans) is gonna replace them with Fedders home-quality housing. I would love to see how a "Fedders-style" house will survive even a Cat 1!

Your right. Crime is bad in N.O. But New Orleans wanted an easy solution; but that city will realize that tearing houses down will NOT necessarily get rid of the issues!

Now, back to the PJ's of NYC!
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