My Mott Haven Visit (Lee, Florida: employment, to buy, wages)

[Guywithacause]

I don't think Mott Haven will be comparable to any other neighborhood in the city. If I WERE to choose, I would say it would be most similar to a LES, because of the downright grittiness and vibe. However, Mott Haven will likely be on its own..an island of uncertainty for some time...living in a world all its own....and will grow more dissimilar from the city as the city itself changes.

[dee5543]

First off, I didn’t realize that the Yankee Stadium area is considered Mott Haven. Secondly, do I think the building of a Rite Aid is going to revitalize the neighborhood? No, I don’t. I will give a nod to the University though, that could be helpful to the neighborhood. Yes, I looked at the site you sent to me, thanks again. And yes, I am aware of the lofts and brownstones that are being snatched up. However, Seventh is dead on with his/her argument. There are, in my vicinity alone: Patterson, which houses 4,377; Mott Haven (where I live) houses 2,485, Mitchel which houses 3,793 and not to mention all of the Betances, which houses something like 1600 more. Sorry, friend, but that’s a lot of the bad element there. No, I know not ALL of them are, but let’s call a spade a spade, shall we? I live there. I see it. There are more kids out on the streets than in schools. Which brings me to my next point: education. Are you referring to the charter school next to St. Pius V by any chance? Have you walked by there when the kids are coming in and out? Ever hear the mouths on them? And of course, the parents and teachers could care less, I’ve seen instances where there were fights right out front and nothing was done. These children desperately need an education, and the sad part is, no one cares.

[Guywithacause]

Although the Yankee Stadium redevleopment zone is not entirely in Mott Haven..it will have an impact on Mott Haven as well. The University is neither in Mott Haven, it is just north in Melrose..but again..this will also have an impact.

I do not disagree that there are real, entrenched problems in the community. Nor does anyone believe that a new Rite-Aid will change anything, although equating all of the changes that are happening to simply a new Rite-Aid indicates that you, along with most others, have already made up your mind about the area. So why are you on this board?

I too live here, far longer than you in fact, and my roots go deep. I am keenly aware of what is happening, as is evidenced by my knowledge of the changes that are occuring in the area. There is no doubt that MORE needs to be done...and I assert that MORE is being done. At the end of the day, however, the projects are not going anywhere, and neither are alot of those people (physically and figuratively), so in that regard...nothing is changing.

However, I choose to focus on all that IS changing. Will it solve ALL of Mott Haven's problems. NO...and nobody says any of it will...but it DOES improve the quality of life for the residents, new and old. It's a start...and there are those that take action to improve, those are the people bringing alot of the new investment in the area, and there are those that criticize, do nothing, and complain. I know which side I prefer to be on....do you?

[dee5543]

First off, posted on this board because I saw someone saying that Mott Haven has changed alot. Well, my God if this is good how bad was it before? I could care less how long you've been around the area; it sucks and it doesn't matter whether you've been there for 5 months or 5 years. More needs to be done, on a greater scale if you will. The small fry thinking of a few shops opening up and bringing growth to the neighborhood is pure *******s. We already have all that stuff; it's called Third Avenue. What we need are more police on our streets, more parents that care, less uneducated females having children like rabbits, more kids in class. That is true change. I shop in the neighborhood, which generates economy for the local shops, I send my child to a local parochial school, I call the cops when there is a disturbance, gunshots etc. So, I am helping my community, in my own way. And FYI: I'm on my side.

[Guywithacause]

Well I hope your justified anger relates to action as well...unfortunately, as you indicated...you are on your side...which seems to be the biggest problem in Mott Haven.

I am sorry that you have had such a horrific time in Mott Haven...at the same time my experiences have been quite positive. Maybe it is time for you to move on....Mott Haven clearly does not meet your needs..and thats okay..its not for everyone.

[bx718]

Guywithacause - your use of change in the previous post rings like an obama ad.

Anyway - I was also wondering just how the "new developments" will cure the crime in MH or specifically the issues in the projects. The combination of hopelessness and poverty is a volatile mixture set to fail. I don't see how the new star bucks benefits "homeyz hanging out at the bodega" (lol). However, why are the people in the projects the way they are? why? do they choose that lifestyle? do they glorify and embrace it?

It's not the fault of society that some of "these people" don't want to change and they rather dig themselves deeper into ignorance crime and poverty. Whoever is building the new starbucks and apartments, is not doing it to "better the NH". they are doing it for money let's not forget that. But then that's exactly what they are supposed to do - businesses make money - social programs cure people and society.

[Guywithacause]

Thats funny that you mentioned that to me BX718..because his message greatly resonates with me, and my belief in CHANGE. So much so...I am trying to put together a small change campaign and submit to Obama...to show him that if Mott Haven can change, so can the rest of the country. I of course would provide pics..etc....

As I have stated endlessly (and apparently to no avail), the new developments and investments are not SUPPOSED to cure anything...that is not there purpose, nor does anyone assert that to be the case. However, let's put things in perspective: When there was HUGE disinvestment and total abandonement of Mott Haven, residents cried racism, and screamed and yelled that they were being ignored, and largely they were. Now that there IS significant investment coming into the area, people are now SCREAMING racism, as in rents are skyrocketing, and whitey is trying to take over. Furthermore, there are many that are screaming that NONE of this new investment changes anything, and it has no effect.

Do you see a trend here? I see it...that attitude pervades the culture here. Nothing is ever good enough, does any good, matters, and its all either a waste of time and/or whitey trying to kick us out. How about being happy about all the new investment, it IS improving the quality of life of the residents, and it is a STEP in the right direction. Mott Haven will not change in a day, a week, or a year, and although you may say this new establishment, new home, new tree, new business, new charter school, new affordable housing, new parks, etc do not change anything....but TOGETHER they are a step in the right direction and are making a difference. That is all I assert...and I stand by that.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

it IS improving the quality of life of the residents.

How?

How is Bruckner Bar and Grill, for example, contributing to solving the problems this neighborhood already has?

[Beliciano]

Originally Posted by SeventhFloor

yeah but how and will these new developments cure mott haven's problems, which is the public housing?

the reason why the projects are such an issue is because i believe they contribute greatly to the downfall of the neighborhood. you pack so much people together at the bottom of the socioeconomic totem pole together and its a bad result. look at the violent neighborhoods in the city that dont have public housing, such as flatbush and fordham. very dense housing in the form of 6-story buildings all packed together. so if these neighborhoods can successfully sustain the image of crime like they have been doing, imagine what public housing does to mott haven. which is why the area in my opinion will remain undesirable.....hopefully it changes and im all for it.

This happened because of Robert Moses.

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by brooklynight

This happened because of Robert Moses.

please elaborate