U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-01-2014, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,134 posts, read 26,416,255 times
Reputation: 9026

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjake54 View Post
In the past, household servants (maids, cooks, nannies) lived in the same home as their employers. In NYC, many are still only a $2.50 fare away.
And a $1000 rent check.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-01-2014, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
9,474 posts, read 13,163,701 times
Reputation: 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
It certainly is if you want the city to subsidize your living arrangements. The marketplace has valued Manhattan as extremely expensive.

But people feel that they are entitled to live in upscale neighborhoods without paying market rate for these properties.
My whole point is that there should be housing units available without any subsidies for people whose income is in that range. If developers can build tall, skinny luxury towers, they can build tall, skinny towers with tiny units and minimal amenities. Or they can rehab existing buildings into tiny units with minimal amenities. They can figure out how much square footage a person can afford based on dollars per square foot and design the units with maximum space efficiency. There is a way to keep people of all income levels living in the city if the people with all the power don't just say if you can't afford to live here move.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2014, 07:33 AM
 
571 posts, read 642,599 times
Reputation: 594
NYC being super-expensive is a myth anyway. I moved here almost a year ago and I'm able to save plenty of money and take my girlfriend out for a nice meal every week on a 46k salary.

We were carrying two cars, two car insurance policies, gassing up two cars in Florida to the tune of nearly $1000 a month between the two of us. Here we pay about $100 each for transpo.

Utilities here are actually a little cheaper due to the fact the AC is blasting in Fl from March until November.

Housing is pricey but we pay $1200 for a really nice one bedroom on the Mosholu.

Groceries, clothing, wine, etc is only ever-so-slightly more expensive than in other places if you're smart about it.

If ever it becomes a losing proposition for me to live here, I'll move. No big deal.

Btw, name another area of the country where babysitters, doormen, dog walkers, drivers, personal assistants, personal chefs, etc live a higher QOL than in NY? These jobs don't even exist in a lot of other places.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2014, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Bronx
14,780 posts, read 17,404,166 times
Reputation: 7508
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkfan39126 View Post
NYC being super-expensive is a myth anyway. I moved here almost a year ago and I'm able to save plenty of money and take my girlfriend out for a nice meal every week on a 46k salary.

We were carrying two cars, two car insurance policies, gassing up two cars in Florida to the tune of nearly $1000 a month between the two of us. Here we pay about $100 each for transpo.

Utilities here are actually a little cheaper due to the fact the AC is blasting in Fl from March until November.

Housing is pricey but we pay $1200 for a really nice one bedroom on the Mosholu.

Groceries, clothing, wine, etc is only ever-so-slightly more expensive than in other places if you're smart about it.

If ever it becomes a losing proposition for me to live here, I'll move. No big deal.

Btw, name another area of the country where babysitters, doormen, dog walkers, drivers, personal assistants, personal chefs, etc live a higher QOL than in NY? These jobs don't even exist in a lot of other places.
Cough, cough no kids. If you had a kid you would be singing singing a different tune. 40k something salary is bare minimum for anyone to live in NYC If they are single and living in the outer boroughs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2014, 08:10 AM
 
23,248 posts, read 16,056,508 times
Reputation: 8534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbiadata View Post
My whole point is that there should be housing units available without any subsidies for people whose income is in that range. If developers can build tall, skinny luxury towers, they can build tall, skinny towers with tiny units and minimal amenities. Or they can rehab existing buildings into tiny units with minimal amenities. They can figure out how much square footage a person can afford based on dollars per square foot and design the units with maximum space efficiency. There is a way to keep people of all income levels living in the city if the people with all the power don't just say if you can't afford to live here move.
In prime location they don't feel it's profitable for them to build units for people making 40k a year. This is a capitalist society. The only way such housing gets built in prime locations is due to taxpayer credits (80/20s). The 20 has the same luxury that the 80 has, because once the tax bond is paid off in 10 to 20 years they can end the 20 subsidized housing in said building.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2014, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,231 posts, read 3,475,434 times
Reputation: 2850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
I found Charles Dickens tale of two cifies, and Jacob Riis how the other half lives to be very vividly real in today's. NYC. Right now I'm down in NC, plenty of native New Yorkers move down here to maintain a middle class status or to become middle class. I might move into an up and coming neighborhood here by next year and abandon NYS, NYC and the Bronx all together.
To be fair, very few areas of the Bronx are actually middle class. The Bronx is a "failed borough" in the same sense people talk about "failed states". The borough has good bones and architecture, but is stuck with poor leadership and poor population. Most of it is poor or working poor who think they are middle class. Out of the population of 1.4 million there are only 80,000 people who make what is considered middle class income in this country. A household income of $40k doesn't make you middle class at all. Me and my gf are both in our 20s and just starting out, and our household income is $95K+, we live in south Brooklyn, both are immigrants/children of immigrants, and I'd say the people in our neighborhood make more than us. Yes, some people move to low COL states to "maintain the appearance of middle class", while actually being working poor. There are a number of studies being done where people feel better if they make more/equal to their neighbors, despite actual income level.

Last edited by Gantz; 12-01-2014 at 08:45 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2014, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Bronx
14,780 posts, read 17,404,166 times
Reputation: 7508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
To be fair, very few areas of the Bronx are actually middle class. The Bronx is a "failed borough" in the same sense people talk about "failed states". The borough has good bones and architecture, but is stuck with poor leadership and poor population. Most of it is poor or working poor who think they are middle class. Out of the population of 1.4 million there are only 80,000 people who make what is considered middle class income in this country. A household income of $40k doesn't make you middle class at all. Me and my gf are both in our 20s and just starting out, and our household income is $95K+, we live in south Brooklyn, both are immigrants/children of immigrants, and I'd say the people in our neighborhood make more than us. Yes, some people move to low COL states to "maintain the appearance of middle class", while actually being working poor. There are a number of studies being done where people feel better if they make more/equal to their neighbors, despite actual income level.
This is very true. But I wouldn't call the Bronx a failed borough. Urban decay destroyed countless cities including Brooklyn as well. 40k single is far different than 40k with kids or 40k with a stay out home wife or girlfriend. Much of this city is full of working poor which to me seems to be very different from working class people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2014, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,231 posts, read 3,475,434 times
Reputation: 2850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
This is very true. But I wouldn't call the Bronx a failed borough. Urban decay destroyed countless cities including Brooklyn as well. 40k single is far different than 40k with kids or 40k with a stay out home wife or girlfriend. Much of this city is full of working poor which to me seems to be very different from working class people.
Some people prefer to be the biggest fish in a puddle, rather than a small fish in a pond.
New York City is an ocean and there are giant whales and other prehistoric creatures swimming around Central park making even the sharks uncomfortable. For me, I don't care about the whales, nor do I care about the puddles, or ponds, or even seas, I just wanna swim in the ocean.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2014, 10:52 AM
 
23,248 posts, read 16,056,508 times
Reputation: 8534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
This is very true. But I wouldn't call the Bronx a failed borough. Urban decay destroyed countless cities including Brooklyn as well. 40k single is far different than 40k with kids or 40k with a stay out home wife or girlfriend. Much of this city is full of working poor which to me seems to be very different from working class people.
The difference is Brooklyn got massive private sector investment. Northwestern Brooklyn has very expensive real estate and Downtown Brooklyn is an important job center (universities, government agencies, courts and private companies). The Bronx would need this kind of investment (most of it will need to be private) to turn around. It's starting to come. I'm hearing that poor people on programs can no longer get housing in the South Bronx. Developers are snapping up the real estate and a lot of start ups are coming. So give it some years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2014, 11:06 AM
 
9,953 posts, read 8,441,593 times
Reputation: 5826
Marginal rents (the rent you have to pay to get a new apartment) would go down. With something like a million apartments stuck in the regulation system, and essentially out of the market, the vacancy rate is kept artificially low. This drives up marginal rents.

Average rents would go up somewhat, since all the people with sweet, vastly under market, regulated rents would lose those. But in the end, we'd have a much heather market, with a higher vacancy rate, which would have the effect of limiting rents. The rest of the country works this way as has much less of a problem with affordability than NYC does.

The other possibility is that there's just SO much demand for housing NYC, that demand will drive up rents. If this is the case, that's the way it should be. But that would drive landlords and developers to build more units to satisfy that demand. Without all the regulations, they could do this much more easily, quickly, and it bigger numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
Boston done away with rentr control yet it's still one of the most inequality cities in America. Like NYC and DC and SF Boston residents face higher rents thanks to the end of rent control. Even if NYC got rid of rent stabilized, rent subsidized including nycha, hasa, section 8 and eliminated preservation board rents will go through the roof.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Similar Threads
View detailed profiles of:
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top