Housing inequality in NYC is of Dickensian dimensions, says Bill Moyers
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If that's the case, why is the economy booming in low cost-of-living, generally Republican states such as Texas?
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Dude, you've got to be trolling.
Both men were pro business and as pro business as it is possible to be. It's really all about money in the end.
The reason why you find yourself marginalized (and thus dreaming of moving to NC, AZ,etc) in a city catered to transplants (actually not just them, towards more affluent people in general) and that cares nothing about a NYC born BronxGuyanese is due to the policies of Giuliani and Bloomberg. They are continuing under de Blasio.
If that's the case, why is the economy booming in low cost-of-living, generally Republican states such as Texas?
Great, now that de Blasio is starting to sell the NYCHA housing projects to developers (six of them so far) they can accomodate all the poor people that NYC is getting rid of, if things are so peachy.
By the way, interesting that Moyers himself seems to have been squeezed out of his better time slots.
He sure has. Nonetheless he brings on some interesting topics about classims, inequality. Plutocracy and so on. During his youth he remembered men such as FDR and Laguardia and other populist politicians.
I never understand why people use the world inequality when nothing on earth is equal to another thing. People who talk about inequality talk in a way that makes it seem unnormal. That's absurd. People who earn and have more are going to live better than those who earn and have less. So everything will always be unequal. Millions are richer than me. It doesn't worry me. I focus on raising myself up and one day getting to that higher position but definitely not in NY because of the ridiculous taxes and nanny and police state.
I never understand why people use the world inequality when nothing on earth is equal to another thing. People who talk about inequality talk in a way that makes it seem unnormal. That's absurd. People who earn and have more are going to live better than those who earn and have less. So everything will always be unequal. Millions are richer than me. It doesn't worry me. I focus on raising myself up and one day getting to that higher position but definitely not in NY because of the ridiculous taxes and nanny and police state.
Meaning you can't afford NYC because those with real money are not worried about taxes in NYC. They can deal with them, and they aren't bothered by the police.
Different gradations of housing would be built in NYC but as someone stated earlier, NYC housing regulations and present economic conditions create disincentives for such projects.
The situation is much more complicated than either thinking it's just some consumers wanting what they can't have or that NYC is some inequality hell hole.
In any consumer market there are gradations of product. Imagine a market where only Apple manufactured computers. That doesn't make much sense ,right? Not everyone wants to or can purchase a 3k computer. Someone therefore steps in to cater to the rest of the market because there's profit to be made. If no one is stepping in to cater to "middle-class" housing in NYC, that means there are reasons for it beyond simple supply and demand.
I've lived in Brooklyn now for 30 years, and I haven't seen a single substantial middle income apartment building project. I've seen plenty of middle income condo and co-op projects but no apartment buildings. This tells me that building apartment buildings is simply not profitable or as profitable as building alternatives.
Why? I don't know but I can venture to guess.
- renter's rights are too strong and renters tend to abuse those rights
- zoning laws preclude the building of large enough apartment buildings to achieve economies of scale
*(e.g. a 6 story apt building may not be profitable but a 10 story would be. If the law only allows for 6 or 3 or 2 then everybody's **** out of luck)
- build-out costs for middle income apartment buildings are far too high due to NYC's construction unions
- middle -income homeowners in NYC would see their property values plummet if there were alternatives to housing and therefore zoning laws aren't changed
Last edited by wawaweewa; 12-14-2014 at 12:56 PM..
I've lived in Brooklyn now for 30 years, and I haven't seen a single substantial middle income apartment building project. I've seen plenty of middle income condo and co-op projects but no apartment buildings. This tells me that building apartment buildings is simply not profitable or as profitable as building alternatives.
Why? I don't know but I can venture to guess.
- renter's rights are too strong and renters tend to abuse those rights
- zoning laws preclude the building of large enough apartment buildings to achieve economies of scale
*(e.g. a 6 story apt building may not be profitable but a 10 story would be. If the law only allows for 6 or 3 or 2 then everybody's **** out of luck)
- build-out costs for middle income apartment buildings are far too high due to NYC's construction unions
- middle -income homeowners in NYC would see their property values plummet if there were alternatives to housing and therefore zoning laws aren't changed
I think it's the matter of renter's rights being an issue. It can take months if not years to evict someone.
Zoning laws aren't the issue as the city is willing to permit the building of high rises! Luxury high rises, or middle income co-ops and condos. Luxury housing can be either condos or co-ops or rentals.
Part of this is city policy and the city is working with investors, bankers, developers. All of them deliberately wanted to attract people with money to the city and reduce the number of poor people (many so called middle class people need to wake up and smell the coffee and realize they are poor or working class if you want to be more polite). White flight has ended, and as upper middle class professionals and the wealthy want to be close to work, lower middle class people are being pushed further out to the edges of the outer boroughs or the suburbs. This is by design, it's in the city's best interest to get all the money they can from the urban core.
I think it's the matter of renter's rights being an issue. It can take months if not years to evict someone.
Zoning laws aren't the issue as the city is willing to permit the building of high rises! Luxury high rises, or middle income co-ops and condos. Luxury housing can be either condos or co-ops or rentals.
Part of this is city policy and the city is working with investors, bankers, developers. All of them deliberately wanted to attract people with money to the city and reduce the number of poor people (many so called middle class people need to wake up and smell the coffee and realize they are poor or working class if you want to be more polite). White flight has ended, and as upper middle class professionals and the wealthy want to be close to work, lower middle class people are being pushed further out to the edges of the outer boroughs or the suburbs. This is by design, it's in the city's best interest to get all the money they can from the urban core.
Zoning is an issue. Go ahead and try to build an apartment building in a residential neighborhoods full of 1,2, and 3 story homes. It ain't going to happen.
People who live in Manhattan tend to forgot that the other 4 boroughs have HUGE swaths of land that are solely populated by private homes (1 and 2 story not counting the basement). Replacing these with apartment buildings would alleviate all of the pressure but it's not going to happen.
I actually don't think that housing is as much of a problem as many believe for actually middle class earners. However, middle class in NYC (outside of Manhattan) starts at a household income of at least 75k (before taxes). There's the problem. Like you said, in NYC, many people just aren't middle class.
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