U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-07-2014, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
7,917 posts, read 6,498,851 times
Reputation: 7103

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwood Boy View Post
Can't punish citizens that support the police. What did you think of my suggestions? Scale back the amount of cops in areas that don't want them?
We should absolutely scale back the police resources in minority neighborhoods. In fact, that is one of the talking points of the anti-law enforcement crowd. They believe that minority crime stats are only inflated because police resources are focused on minority areas. The department should absolutely stop wasting limited manpower on neighborhoods which do not appreciate the disproportionate allocations they currently receive, especially since they are certainly not the ones paying for those reasources.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-07-2014, 02:19 PM
 
3,245 posts, read 4,171,831 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
crime has been going down across the country, independent of police tactics
NYC crime was so rampant, that it skewed the national stats higher; now NYC crime reductions have brought the national figures lower. As others have noted, NYPD tactics have been exported, with some successes elsewhere.
Meanwhile, looks like crime is up in Seattle, after Holder's intervention:
Eric Holder believes all cops are racists, targets ‘unconscious bias’ | New York Post
"Take the Seattle Police Department, which Justice alleged engaged in a “pattern and practice” of discrimination toward blacks. ... In a 2012 consent decree, Holder ordered Seattle to soften its use-of-force rules and train brass and rank and file alike in “bias-free” policing that recognizes and eliminates “implicit bias,” while disciplining any conduct tied to it. ... The result? Crime is up in the Emerald City. Since Holder stepped in, crime is up 13% overall in Seattle. But it’s not just minor infractions. It’s the biggies — aggravated assaults up 14%, car theft up a whopping 44% and murders up 21%."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2014, 03:18 PM
 
23,276 posts, read 16,124,122 times
Reputation: 8555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
We should absolutely scale back the police resources in minority neighborhoods. In fact, that is one of the talking points of the anti-law enforcement crowd. They believe that minority crime stats are only inflated because police resources are focused on minority areas. The department should absolutely stop wasting limited manpower on neighborhoods which do not appreciate the disproportionate allocations they currently receive, especially since they are certainly not the ones paying for those reasources.
Especially when it pertains to busting people for selling loosies. Good grief, if it's something like that the cops should have just gone to Dunkin Donuts and had coffee.

With a scaled back presence, that means cops would only be available for coming out for serious crimes. If the cops actually have the time to answer a call about a guy selling loose cigarettes that tells me they have far too much time on their hands.

Oh and in the Brooklyn housing projects a cop shoots into a dark stairwell without seeing the person and kills a guy. Why would anyone want this kind of service? Scale back the police presence in the projects and put in lights and cameras. Evict those guilty of felonies and other serious crimes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2014, 04:08 PM
 
3,245 posts, read 4,171,831 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
If the cops actually have the time to answer a call about a guy selling loose cigarettes that tells me they have far too much time on their hands.
Every precinct has a handful of officers assigned to handle "conditions". Basically, the pair of officers in the Garner case appear to have been handling a typical nuisance call, whether it was directly from the local merchants, who pay rent & taxes on sold cigarettes, or indirectly from the higher-ups in the NYPD, as a result of those same merchant calls. Other patrol units may have calls stacked up, but the special units don't handle those, unless there's a call for assistance. As you can see in the Garner video, it took a few minutes for uniformed officers and a supervisor to arrive.
Quote:
in the Brooklyn housing projects a cop shoots into a dark stairwell without seeing the person and kills a guy. ... Scale back the police presence in the projects and put in lights and cameras. Evict those guilty of felonies and other serious crimes.
It seems that his gun fired accidentally. Housing Authority takes forever to respond to maintenance issues, whether it's broken lights, elevators, entrance doors, etc. Probably because as soon as something is fixed, it gets broken again. Why? Some people in the PJs don't want lights, or door locks, or cameras. Let's see often the new cameras get broken, fixed, and broken again. As for evicting criminals, NYC winds up placing them in homeless shelters, due to litigation from the do-gooders. The PJs are responsible for a large percentage of crime in NYC. Many NYCers might be happy to see more police in their neighborhoods, and fewer in Housing, but then the city & NYPD would be accused of ignoring the PJs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2014, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, not Paris. #MAGA.
9,693 posts, read 5,300,121 times
Reputation: 9671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwood Boy View Post
Scale back the amount of cops in areas that don't want them?
I'd be careful there for several reasons. Firstly, those protesters, while loud, don't necessarily speak for most of the people in the affected areas. Indeed, I know that a great many people are happy about the reduction in crime brought on by a flood of police officers in high crime areas, though they may be upset at alleged and substantiated incidents of police misconduct/abuse.

Second, letting criminals run lose in violent crime areas will only lead to an expansion of violent crime elsewhere as fewer guns, knives, criminals, etc. are being taken off the street and move to expand their turf/seek out other opportunities. At least this is my theory.

Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 12-07-2014 at 04:33 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2014, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, not Paris. #MAGA.
9,693 posts, read 5,300,121 times
Reputation: 9671
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
No, this is not independent of police tactics. Many of the PDs across the country adopted the same tactics and attitude as the NYPD, when they saw that they were working. How many PDs use the Compstat system? How many emulated "broken windows"? In point of fact, at the time the NYPD implemented these tactics, the criminal justice system at all levels, including the Federal Government, were changing tactics, becoming much less tolerant of crime, and going with both more aggressive policing on the street, and tougher sentencing for those convicted.

And you know what, it worked. That's why we got the nationwide reductions in crime we've seen over the last twenty years. Of course, there's an entire generation that wasn't around for the bad old days. They're the idiots you see in the streets now. They want to go back to the failed "kinder and gentler" policies of the '70s.

This has nothing to do with white privilege, unless you consider keeping crime under control a racist concept. This is a concept that the criminal class and their sympathizers are selling. Anyone who buys it is an imbecile.

Agreed. Many people aren't recognizing this. But we see what is going on in those cities that, due to political pressures, have not been as aggressive about policing. Exhibit 1: Chicago, where political pressure and an unbroken string of leftist mayors have ensured that the Giuliani/Bloomberg policing tactics (which are not aimed at race, but rather at violence) aren't introduced on the scale necessary to bring down crime. As a result, Chicago, a city of 2.6-7 million people, has 500 murders per year (this number would be higher if not for advances in medicine which have saved the lives of a great many more shooting victims . . . there have actually been articles on this point) whereas NYC, a city of 8.5 million people, has fewer than 400 murders per year.

Although I was not alive in the '70s, things were still bad enough in the early-mid 1990's that I know I don't want to go back to those days.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2014, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, not Paris. #MAGA.
9,693 posts, read 5,300,121 times
Reputation: 9671
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjake54 View Post
It seems that his gun fired accidentally.
Agree with the great majority of your post. I'm not clear about one point, however. I've heard that the officer's gun fired "accidentally" but don't know whether this means that the gun malfunctioned and "accidentally" went off or whether the officer got spooked and actually pulled the trigger. If the latter, the officer certainly isn't in the clear (not that you claim he is). My biggest problem, however, with this case is that the officer allegedly contacted his union rep rather than immediately calling for medical help to assist the young man he had just shot (if I am wrong about this, please correct me). If this is true, then that is a huge problem; at the end of the day, its one that body cameras could help to explain in the future.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2014, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
7,917 posts, read 6,498,851 times
Reputation: 7103
The Pink Houses incident is a disaster. That officer will certainly be indicted at the least for Reckless Endangerment. Guns don't "accidentally" fire. His finger pulled the trigger one way or another.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2014, 04:41 PM
 
3,245 posts, read 4,171,831 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
I've heard that the officer's gun fired "accidentally" but don't know whether this means that the gun malfunctioned and "accidentally" went off or whether the officer got spooked and actually pulled the trigger. If the latter, the officer certainly isn't in the clear (not that you claim he is).
We'll find out more eventually, but first reports seem to indicate that he had his flashlight in one hand, his gun in the other, while opening the heavy door to the stairwell. It's unclear why he squeezed the trigger, but seems accurate that the bullet hit the wall & ricocheted into the man.
Quote:
My biggest problem, however, with this case is that the officer allegedly contacted his union rep rather than immediately calling for medical help to assist the young man he had just shot (if I am wrong about this, please correct me). If this is true, then that is a huge problem; at the end of the day, its one that body cameras could help to explain in the future.
It's been reported that the couple in the stairwell ran down 2 or 3 flights of stairs and then left into a lower floor, while the officers pulled back into their floor, and that the officer did not even know that someone had been shot. I don't know what body cameras would show, in a pitch-black stairwell.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2014, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, not Paris. #MAGA.
9,693 posts, read 5,300,121 times
Reputation: 9671
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjake54 View Post
It's been reported that the couple in the stairwell ran down 2 or 3 flights of stairs and then left into a lower floor, while the officers pulled back into their floor, and that the officer did not even know that someone had been shot. I don't know what body cameras would show, in a pitch-black stairwell.
Ok, thanks for sharing that. I'll say, though that body cameras may not have shown much in this incident, they could have--assuming that they also have audio (as I presume they do)--still have gone a long way to shedding further light on the incident and the immediate aftermath.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Similar Threads
View detailed profiles of:
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top