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Old 12-07-2014, 04:28 PM
 
Location: New York State
274 posts, read 221,526 times
Reputation: 585

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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
This isn't just about Michael Brown or even more convincingly Garner who in no way was threatening NYPD.

This is about a man like Eric Holder WHO AS A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, was humiliated by police men when they had no probable cause. And there are many who can say the same, including that black woman who was beaten up by the cops in front of her kids on a lonely highway. No what does she tell her kids.......that the cops are there to protect them?

As they say white folks don't get it, and I don't have the time t explain it as you will NEVER get it.
You just lost me there when you brought up Eric "anti-white" Holder.

You're right, I don't get it - and neither does 95% of whites, hispanics, asians and others.
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Old 12-07-2014, 04:29 PM
 
203 posts, read 151,393 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
This is about a man like Eric Holder WHO AS A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, was humiliated by police men when they had no probable cause.
But what exactly is Holder doing to bring about change? DOJ hasn't done much to stop police brutality. If anything, they continue to ship the military equipment to city police departments throughout the country.
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Old 12-07-2014, 04:32 PM
 
203 posts, read 151,393 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by xTiberiusx View Post
You just lost me there when you brought up Eric "anti-white" Holder.

You're right, I don't get it - and neither does 95% of whites, hispanics, asians and others.
Hispanics don't get? Really, they are the primary ones (along with Blacks) who are stopped in NYC. Perhaps you meant, white middle/upper income Hispanics who aren't in the "Barrio"?

Also, I seriously doubt that Asians don't get it either. Especially, not the Indian or Pakistani Muslims, who are routinely identified by NYPD as 'terrorists' suspects.
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Old 12-07-2014, 04:45 PM
 
23,263 posts, read 16,088,546 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxyrn View Post
Why don't they go to Central Park, hold candles (or light cigarettes) and then email their government officials to change the system.
Or volunteer en masse at homeless shelters or food kitchens?
Positive actions will promote more change than disrupting holiday shoppers....
Because activists are not welfare workers. Those needing food in NYC know the HRA system very well, and they know the soup kitchens around town very well. There's enough of that in NYC.

Clearly if the protesters actions are being talked about by the media and by politicians across the spectrum, they chose the correct path.

And holiday shoppers and people going to work were all disrupted in the 60s and 70s by the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement, and the gay rights movement.

Btw, protesters work and shop too. They believe their cause is such that people can take a few minutes away from holiday shopping to think about important issues that affect their entire society.
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Old 12-07-2014, 04:46 PM
 
23,263 posts, read 16,088,546 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjake54 View Post
Without incessant media coverage, few would know of the protests. Sometimes, I think that there are more reporters and camera crews out there, than protestors. Many of those media people are self-appointed, as well.
As a writer, I know the media puts out there what the public is willing to consume. As more people click links or watch things on tv, those sites and channels get high ratings and are able to charge advertisers more money.

Media coverage of an issue is never a charity case, they do it to make money off it and they can make money off of it because the public is interested in seeing it.
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Old 12-07-2014, 04:50 PM
 
23,263 posts, read 16,088,546 times
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This is the end of the Giuliani era politically and nationally. De Blasio and other mayors will end the Giuliani era reforms, and push the police down and entirely different path. Eventually laws will be passed and the nation will need fewer cops (things like the legalization of marijuana were already underway).

If anything, the protesters empower de Blasio and Cuomo (and other mayors and governors) to finally push through changes that they would have otherwise had a hard time pushing through. Complainers on this forum KNOW this, which is why they are upset to see Giuliani's legacy CRUMBLE into DUST!
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:02 PM
 
3,183 posts, read 2,815,621 times
Reputation: 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
This is the end of the Giuliani era politically and nationally. De Blasio and other mayors will end the Giuliani era reforms, and push the police down and entirely different path. Eventually laws will be passed and the nation will need fewer cops (things like the legalization of marijuana were already underway).

If anything, the protesters empower de Blasio and Cuomo (and other mayors and governors) to finally push through changes that they would have otherwise had a hard time pushing through. Complainers on this forum KNOW this, which is why they are upset to see Giuliani's legacy CRUMBLE into DUST!
Changes like what?

What, specifically and narrowly, are the protesters going to achieve, except the satisfaction of momentarily inconveniencing people with broadly better lives than theirs, and maybe for the college contingent banging that cute co-ed who is also there protesting? I agree that things like, say, marijuana decriminalization are coming but that's going to happen, and happen at about the same speed, regardless of whether or not the protests had occurred.

This all seems as disorganized and pointless as occupy.
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:21 PM
 
23,263 posts, read 16,088,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALackOfCreativity View Post
Changes like what?

What, specifically and narrowly, are the protesters going to achieve, except the satisfaction of momentarily inconveniencing people with broadly better lives than theirs, and maybe for the college contingent banging that cute co-ed who is also there protesting? I agree that things like, say, marijuana decriminalization are coming but that's going to happen, and happen at about the same speed, regardless of whether or not the protests had occurred.

This all seems as disorganized and pointless as occupy.
This was said in the 1960s and 1970s as well, by people who despised any and all change and who hated the idea that anyone would challenge authority.

But people do challenge authority from time to time.

As disorganized as occupy was, de Blasio is mayor in part because of it. De Blasio used terminology from occupy to appeal to the working masses and presented himself as a champion of them, and criticized Bloomberg, Quinn, etc of only being interested in the city's wealthy interest.

Occupy was around in 2011-2012 because the Democrats funded it and used it to energize their base to reelect Obama. Mission accomplished on that as well.
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:43 PM
 
3,183 posts, read 2,815,621 times
Reputation: 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
This was said in the 1960s and 1970s as well, by people who despised any and all change and who hated the idea that anyone would challenge authority.

But people do challenge authority from time to time.

As disorganized as occupy was, de Blasio is mayor in part because of it. De Blasio used terminology from occupy to appeal to the working masses and presented himself as a champion of them, and criticized Bloomberg, Quinn, etc of only being interested in the city's wealthy interest.

Occupy was around in 2011-2012 because the Democrats funded it and used it to energize their base to reelect Obama. Mission accomplished on that as well.
In the 60s and 70s a lot of protests had "asks:" ending segregation, leaving Vietnam, and so forth. These were productive. There were also expressions of anger like the riots which didn't have asks, and those got nothing done except when things turned violent harm peoples' lives and do long term harm to local communities and economies.

Occupy had no "ask" and achieved absolutely nothing concrete. I'm sure it was a fun time for a lot of people but it achieved nothing of lasting benefit for all the inconvenience it caused. DeBlasio would have won without it given the context he was running in (post Bloomberg and with even the upper-middle class feeling squeezed by gentrification) and the opponents in the primary.

You feel the need to grasp at straws because, except for maybe a couple specific cops' heads on a platter, the current protests also have no "ask." Without a coherent demand they are just another outpouring of anger which won't effect any long term change on society or achieve any goals, except insofar as communities where things have gotten violent (and we can all be thankful people have broadly stayed civilized in NYC) will be permanently scarred by business closures and out-migration.
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:54 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,452,588 times
Reputation: 7274
ALackofCReativity, The South viewed protests about segregation as you are viewing police brutality protests. I'm thankful folks had the patience to see it through.

In general, protests at the time of creation are not focused, but give it time. Jim Crow protests did not bear fruit for many years.
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