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Old 12-09-2014, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
7,903 posts, read 6,477,538 times
Reputation: 7088

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
HOWEVER, the grand jury was never given the option to indict the arresting officer on abuse of power or excessive force. They were never provided with a valid charge against the arresting officer.
Since "abuse of power" and "excessive force" do not exist in the New York State Penal Law, neither would be a valid charge to present to the grand jury. I'm fairly confident that Donovan presented actual penal law statutes to the grand jury, which is why the result was NO INDICTMENT.

And FYI, most of the cases you posted above are state court cases not from NY, not SCOTUS cases. Therefore, they do not apply here.

Please consider taking a refresher before you test for your internet attorney bar exam.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:56 PM
 
23,254 posts, read 16,063,944 times
Reputation: 8534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumshoe Lady View Post
Huh? The cops were called by the store owners because, clearly, Garner was interfering with business.

Once they were called they had no choice but to arrest him.
Sure they had a choice. They could have simply moved or as in the 80s, told the store owners they had real crimes to pursue.

Or the cops can do what they did and now lose their jobs and pensions.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:01 PM
 
23,254 posts, read 16,063,944 times
Reputation: 8534
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ryu View Post
Punishment for Petty crime needs to enforce or else it will escalate to more serious crime. How is it a 2 way street? If dummy Gardner didn't resist and allowed the officers to arrest him, like a professional criminal with 30 prior arrest then he would still be alive. He was arrested in April 2014 for the same crime. Did he not learn??
Petty crime isn't uniformly enforced. All college students who smoke have sold loosies to friends, yet are the police storming college campuses?

No.

For that matter, wherever you have a lot of young people, particularly if they have money, there's generally drugs. Are the police doing major crackdowns on college campuses?

No.

So clearly the NYPD doesn't really care that much about petty crime in many circumstances, and ditto other police departments. In short where wealthy people are involved, the cops look the other way for these types of petty crimes.

You know very well college students, tourists, and business people would not tolerate what people like Gardner go through, and they would take their money elsewhere causing extreme economic damage to the city if the NYPD dared to even try to enforce such stupid laws on them. Eric Gardner was a poor, dumb, street person and therefore a convenient target (particularly because he had a lengthy record and was on parole). However, none of this justifies his death and none of this justifies the NYPD and the EMS making no legitimate effort to save him. It's murder.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:02 PM
 
9,920 posts, read 7,687,681 times
Reputation: 4682
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Sure they had a choice. They could have simply moved or as in the 80s, told the store owners they had real crimes to pursue.

Or the cops can do what they did and now lose their jobs and pensions.
All the cops involved lost their jobs and pensions already?

Cigarettes kill. Its a dirty business.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
7,903 posts, read 6,477,538 times
Reputation: 7088
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale View Post
All the cops involved lost their jobs and pensions already?

Cigarettes kill. Its a dirty business.
No one has, and only one might.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:10 PM
 
852 posts, read 810,402 times
Reputation: 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
Since "abuse of power" and "excessive force" do not exist in the New York State Penal Law, neither would be a valid charge to present to the grand jury. I'm fairly confident that Donovan presented actual penal law statutes to the grand jury, which is why the result was NO INDICTMENT.

And FYI, most of the cases you posted above are state court cases not from NY, not SCOTUS cases. Therefore, they do not apply here.

Please consider taking a refresher before you test for your internet attorney bar exam.
No but the prosecution can charge the officer with homicide, manslaughter in the first degree, that resulted from his abuse of power and excessive force.

As for the rest, yes, those are not supreme court rulings, but the court still defends the right to resist unlawful arrests.
“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:33 PM
 
6,828 posts, read 4,428,208 times
Reputation: 7622
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Petty crime isn't uniformly enforced. All college students who smoke have sold loosies to friends, yet are the police storming college campuses?

No.

For that matter, wherever you have a lot of young people, particularly if they have money, there's generally drugs. Are the police doing major crackdowns on college campuses?

No.

So clearly the NYPD doesn't really care that much about petty crime in many circumstances, and ditto other police departments. In short where wealthy people are involved, the cops look the other way for these types of petty crimes.

You know very well college students, tourists, and business people would not tolerate what people like Gardner go through, and they would take their money elsewhere causing extreme economic damage to the city if the NYPD dared to even try to enforce such stupid laws on them. Eric Gardner was a poor, dumb, street person and therefore a convenient target (particularly because he had a lengthy record and was on parole). However, none of this justifies his death and none of this justifies the NYPD and the EMS making no legitimate effort to save him. It's murder.
LOL.

All college students who smoke sell loosies to their friends... They don't give them for free. I know several college kids who give it for free to their friends. Also, wouldn't that be a university issue?

you have a lot of young people, particularly if they have money, there's generally drugs. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stop generalizing, dude!

You know very well college students, tourists, and business people would not tolerate what people like Gardner go through, and they would take their money elsewhere causing extreme economic damage to the city if the NYPD dared to even try to enforce such stupid laws on them. Garder was a street hustler. Do you believe that college students, tourists, and business people would want Eric Gardner or someone similar to live in their building/neighborhood??? NO! Are you under the impression that college students, tourists, and business people will wake up and become street hustlers?

Like another poster said, DON"T BREAK THE LAW IF YOU DON"T WANT TO DEAL WITH THE COPS. IF YOU BELIEVE THE COPS ARE OUT TO GET YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR RACE, SKIN COLOR, ETC THEN THAT SHOULD BE EXTRA INCENTIVE NOT TO BREAK THE LAW. At the end of the day, everyone has to realize that you are on your OWN. No one helped Eric (cops or his street friends). There is no superman/Jesus that will scoop you up at the brink of imminent death.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:36 PM
 
Location: New York State
274 posts, read 221,236 times
Reputation: 585
It's interesting to see totally different perspectives of this incident from both sides. Should be interesting to see where this leads.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:39 PM
 
9,920 posts, read 7,687,681 times
Reputation: 4682
Cornell students posting up outside the student union hustling loosies. Must be just like life on the corner of Bay st.
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:17 PM
 
203 posts, read 151,267 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ryu View Post
LOL.

All college students who smoke sell loosies to their friends... They don't give them for free. I know several college kids who give it for free to their friends. Also, wouldn't that be a university issue?

you have a lot of young people, particularly if they have money, there's generally drugs. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stop generalizing, dude!

You know very well college students, tourists, and business people would not tolerate what people like Gardner go through, and they would take their money elsewhere causing extreme economic damage to the city if the NYPD dared to even try to enforce such stupid laws on them. Garder was a street hustler. Do you believe that college students, tourists, and business people would want Eric Gardner or someone similar to live in their building/neighborhood??? NO! Are you under the impression that college students, tourists, and business people will wake up and become street hustlers?

Like another poster said, DON"T BREAK THE LAW IF YOU DON"T WANT TO DEAL WITH THE COPS. IF YOU BELIEVE THE COPS ARE OUT TO GET YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR RACE, SKIN COLOR, ETC THEN THAT SHOULD BE EXTRA INCENTIVE NOT TO BREAK THE LAW. At the end of the day, everyone has to realize that you are on your OWN. No one helped Eric (cops or his street friends). There is no superman/Jesus that will scoop you up at the brink of imminent death.
Why wasn't Phillip Seymour Hoffman arrested by the NYPD for drug possession? Clearly, he broke the law...
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