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Your $20k a year in RE taxes sounds great but it's unrealistic unless you think they're going to buy a $800k house. With an income of $1mm a year, they're going to buy a house that's at least $1.5mm - $2mm. That puts them in the $40-$50k a year RE tax bracket for anywhere in Westchester with good schools.
They can get a 2M house for FAR less in taxes and good schools if they skip Westchester. Greenwich, Saddle River, and Alpine all have low taxes and a wealthy demographic, and in any of these places the taxes on a $2M house will be less than 20K. Even taxes in many of the elite LI towns on the North Shore are favorable to Westchester. Don't get me wrong, Westchester is nice, but in general, taxes don't work in it's favor.
Well, paying high taxes will definitely be a tough pill to swallow. How much will the mayor be raising taxes? We could afford a 3 million dollar apartment. I can't believe how much a 3BR is. It's unreal to me.
I heard if you live in the suburbs and purchase or rent an apartment to use here and there in the city, you still have to pay the high tax. You have to be in Manhattan less than 150 days or something? I'm assuming the wealthy suburban towns are very homogenous. How is the "friendly, welcoming" factor? Is it hard to find down to earth people?
What I mean by growing up too fast is seeing and knowing too much at such a young age and taking the subway by themselves at the age of 11. I don't know?
How big of an apt could we buy or rent is the question? We have 3 small kids. Yes, they can share a room but if it is a small apt, will I have to take them outside constantly? Sorry if this sounds dumb but I dont know.
We will look into park slope. It sounds lovely. Though, someone did tell me it takes well over 30 minutes to get into Manhattan. How will the commute be to midtown? Or if I want to take my kids to the American Museum of natural city? But will I take all 3 little ones by myself? Probably not. :/
My husband and I are thinking about moving to Manhattan or Brooklyn. We have 3 young children. Can anyone offer any advice about what it's like with kids in the city? What are the pros and cons? Thanks in advance.
There's nothing wrong with the city. We went from Long Island to Brooklyn Dumbo area. He was attending a private school Poly Prep. We were city regulars and the first thing you need to know for yourself is are you there for the kids or for you? Both would be the path of least resistance. Million dollar incomes are like hats in the city it will not benefit you. If you start them off in the city shifting to the suburbs around the middle school arena will be like telling yourself you like a minivan better than an SL500. It will feel like a complete downgrade to the kids too. So who you are doing it for matters most! For yourself than I would say go for it. 3 kids and tight spaces, noise, danger, the battle for the schools spots, long bus lines, high cab fares, you might get a place near a grocery store, parking, hauling those shopping trips back, the fires, the worrying, the very palpable distrust for everyone you see, the homeless, Personal space parameters are a 1' circumference, the arrogant new age 20-30 somethings. traffic, soot from car fumes, the smell from the car fumes, the political visitors,The movie shut downs, The strange, the really strange, and the cross the street instead of passing them strange (they call that the culture). All that is moving at 100 miles an hour. I honestly think kids that grow up there somehow wind up smarter with way more ability to adjust and accept things that are different. No supporting data on that though. +side= Great food after you spend a fortune finding your personal favorites. The culture, there's no limit to who you might wind up having a conversation with or befriending. There is always something to do for the young and old. Massive diversity. You'll find that after a while you kind of stay within a certain pocket of blocks because you'll come to know it, that will be your neighborhood. If your deciding for your kids. I now live on LI again 40 minute drive even less by train, direct line to the city. Fresh air, water, space, great public school, fear/stress level dramatically reduced. They will need to grow up in the city to develop the social aptitude to survive there healthily and to believe that, that world is normal. Now would be perfect for that. Raising them in the burbs and then moving to the city is traumatic. Brooklyn is the same thing just spread out and slowed down a little. Much better for young kids In my opinion. From there you can transition to the burbs and it won't be a miserable move. I didn't mind Brooklyn that much. Long Island City is a really nice upcoming area more single prone than family prone right now though. For you I say give the city a try just because you want to they're still young enough to change your mind after and get away with it. For the happy medium I say Brooklyn. Hope it goes well for your family. The city is not kid friendly you'll see what I mean when they have to go to the bathroom.
First advise, don't be crazy enough to buy an apartment in NYC. Look at townhouses, especially brownstone. They are the most lucrative housing stock in the city for raising a family. Apartment are overpriced rental home for large families (best suited for couples and single people, not the ideal property to raise a family).
They can get a 2M house for FAR less in taxes and good schools if they skip Westchester. Greenwich, Saddle River, and Alpine all have low taxes and a wealthy demographic, and in any of these places the taxes on a $2M house will be less than 20K. Even taxes in many of the elite LI towns on the North Shore are favorable to Westchester. Don't get me wrong, Westchester is nice, but in general, taxes don't work in it's favor.
Of course there are plenty of other places but that's besides not what I'm commenting on. My point is that you can't find that in Westchester because those are the towns that the poster mentioned.
I would recommend you go sight seeing. The funniest time my wife and me had was visiting neighborhood and trying local restaurants and taking in the atmosphere. You can make appointment with real estate agents to see properties and make low offers to get a feel for the market.
Word of wisdom don't trust any real estate agent or newspaper article they will make you think every neighborhood is up and coming. NYC is going through a real estate boom and developers, real estate agent, and newspapers have incentives to keep cheering the prices to go higher.
Well, paying high taxes will definitely be a tough pill to swallow. How much will the mayor be raising taxes? We could afford a 3 million dollar apartment. I can't believe how much a 3BR is. It's unreal to me.
I heard if you live in the suburbs and purchase or rent an apartment to use here and there in the city, you still have to pay the high tax. You have to be in Manhattan less than 150 days or something? I'm assuming the wealthy suburban towns are very homogenous. How is the "friendly, welcoming" factor? Is it hard to find down to earth people?
What I mean by growing up too fast is seeing and knowing too much at such a young age and taking the subway by themselves at the age of 11. I don't know?
How big of an apt could we buy or rent is the question? We have 3 small kids. Yes, they can share a room but if it is a small apt, will I have to take them outside constantly? Sorry if this sounds dumb but I dont know.
We will look into park slope. It sounds lovely. Though, someone did tell me it takes well over 30 minutes to get into Manhattan. How will the commute be to midtown? Or if I want to take my kids to the American Museum of natural city? But will I take all 3 little ones by myself? Probably not. :/
For renting, you don't pay RE tax. Even if you have a house in the suburbs and own a side place in Manhattan, you still have to pay the real estate tax. HOWEVER (and this is big), by having your official residence outside of NYC, you don't pay city income tax. At your income level, this is an enormous sum of money that dwarfs any property tax. Very few of the billionaires that have residences in Manhattan actually have it as their domicile for tax purposes (they all own multiple homes), they are not morons.
Wealthy suburban towns are generally very friendly and welcoming. They will be more homogenous than the city overall, but not so much more so than any high end building and private school in Manhattan.
OP, I think people are WAY overreacting to think that with a $3 million housing budget and a $1 million income, it's hard to raise a family of five in Manhattan. That's totally nuts. Just a cursory look through the listings on Zillow and I saw several 4 bedroom listings for less than that in Manhattan, on the UES, which would put one in many of the good elementary schools in District 2. You'd have even more options if you found a 3 bedroom that you liked, and could also consider the Upper West Side which is one the best neighborhoods for raising kids in Manhattan IMHO. (That's where we raised ours, and on far, far less than $1 million a year.) And there are plenty of strollers, toddlers, and teenagers roaming both sides of Central Park. Families are drawn to the the UES and UWS because of proximity to the Park -- and Riverside Park in addition on the West Side-- and some larger buildings have an indoor play room for youngsters as well.
Once you have the housing problem solved raising kids in NYC really is not very different from raising kids anywhere else. You worry about who their friends are, whether you like their schoolteachers, if they do their homework, when they get their first cell phone, and so forth. No different than anywhere else. Kids here don't grow up too fast, but they do grow up different because they're exposed to so much more --good and bad -- than kids elsewhere. I think that's usually good. But ultimately, it's up to the parents how that affects them, and if you are parents with some common sense it's usually for the better.
Elementary schools here are zoned (unless the child tests into a gifted and talented program) but most on the UES and UWS are not a problem at all. Nor are most of the middle schools there. (The UES has a zoned middle school, the UWS has none and all are by application). High schools everywhere in NYC, however, are by application and/or test. By the time the kids are HS age you will know which ones are which and which ones your kids want to go to and have a chance to get into. Or whether you want to consider private schools. And especially if these kids are now young, going to middle school on the bus or subway will be second nature to them, as it is for tens of thousands of NYC kids now.
Ultimately I think you have to make your choice based on what's best for your kids AND you, rather than a tax consideration. Unhappy and frustrated parents, whether in 'burbs or in the city, are just bad for kids. Really bad. Make sure that you are happy and satisfied with wherever you land, and the odds are much higher that your children will be happy too.
Last edited by citylove101; 02-09-2015 at 01:16 PM..
OP, your income is more than enough to raise happy children in the city. I think most people discouraging you are just pissed off at all the wealthy transplants that moved to NYC.
With your income, there are plenty of kid friendly neighborhoods in Manhattan and prime Brooklyn, that your kids will flourish in.
I personally have a 2 y/o and a 8month old. I have a condo in Dumbo Brooklyn, which is totally kid friendly. Unfortunately I am priced out ( I only make 300k a year), so I'm in contract with a house in suburbs of north shore Long Island. But if I could afford to continue to live in the city, I would. 1M income is no problem at all in the city. The city is designed for rich transplant yuppies like your family.
My vote for neighborhoods for your family: Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope, Upper West side.
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