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Old 02-12-2015, 07:33 PM
 
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Question: Why do some NYC METRO AREA bridges, tunnels, and highways charge tolls (and often, though not always, rather high tolls or tolls which add up to high if making a round trip) yet others never charge ANY tolls or NOMINAL tolls? And yet a host of others are totally free-of-charge?


This may or may not be perceived as a complaint (per se). It just impresses me as such a hodge-podge of policies. I mean there may be a legitimate justification to have to charge tolls (for maintenance, upkeep, and upgrades to said bridges, tunnels or highways). Yet, if that is the case, why don't they ALL charge such tolls (for they ALL need to be regularly maintained, fixed, upgraded, et al)? And then these often enough are not nominal tolls like $1.50 or $2.00 or $2.50 (though sometimes they are) but rather quite much more-- even for single cars --and often ever-increasing over the course of time. What is the logic and reasoning behind not having a consistent policy for all of them or nearly so? What is the rhyme or reason as to how the bridges, tunnels, and highways serving the greater New York City metro area are administered toll-wise (to charge or not to charge, and then how much to charge)?

And what would be a consistent policy? I don't know. Just off the top of my head:

  1. Don't charge tolls for ANY of them but have them subsidized by a general tax-based fund ... whether a single state fund or a bi-state or tri-state fund or a federal fund or some combination. OR
  2. Charge tolls for ALL of them but keep it reasonable for ALL of them (e.g., not $14.00 per crossing a bridge for a car but perhaps $2.50 ... and buses carrying any number of passengers and tractor trailers can be assessed somewhat more. OR
  3. Only charge tolls for ONE-WAY but not for the return trip but still keep it reasonable.
or whatever other variations.

So the following bridges and tunnels (all controlled by the Port Authority of NY and NJ) do charge tolls: George Washington Bridge, Holland Tunnel, Lincoln Tunnel, Bayonne Bridge, Goethals Bridge, Outerbridge Crossing. For the exact tolls, see Tolls - Bridges & Tunnels - The Port Authority of NY & NJ.

And then the following bridges and tunnels (all controlled by the Metropolitan Transit Authority or MTA) do charge tolls: Bronx-Whitestone Bridge, Throgs Neck Bridge, RFK (formerly Triborough) Bridges; Hugh Carey (formerly Brooklyn-Battery) Tunnel, Queens Midtown Tunnel, Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, Cross Bay and Marine Parkway-Gil Hodges Memorial Bridges. for the exact tolls, see mta.info | MTA Bridges and Tunnels' Toll Cars.

And then the following bridges do not charge any tolls at all (many though not all of these appear to be run by the New York State Dept. of Transportation or DOT): Brooklyn Bridge, Manhattan Bridge, Williamsburg Bridge, Ed Koch Queensboro Bridge, Roosevelt Island Bridge, Rikers Island Bridge,Willis Ave. Bridge, Third Ave. Bridge, and a host of other bridges large and small. Yet don't these ALSO need to be maintained, fixed, and upgraded? So why do they get to operate with no toll revenue?

And then the following highways in the New York City metro area do charge tolls: New York State Thruway, New Jersey Turnpike, et al.

Yet the following highways do not charge tolls (unless I am mistaken on some): Long Island Expressway, Northern State Parkway, South State Parkway, Van Wyck Expressway, Grand Central Parkway, Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, Cross Bronx Expressway. Yet don't these ALSO need to be maintained, fixed, and upgraded? So why do they get to operate with no toll revenue?

In summary, such a hodge-podge of policies. And I haven't even named every single bridge and tunnel and highway serving the greater Downstate New York Metro Area (i.e., NYC, Long Island, Northern NJ, the counties of the Lower Hudson Valley, western or southwestern Connecticut). And even the ones not named, taken together, have a hodge-podge of policies.
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:38 PM
 
279 posts, read 684,362 times
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revenue is generated via higher taxes in some shape or form.

Quote:
And then the following bridges do not charge any tolls at all (many though not all of these appear to be run by the New York State Dept. of Transportation or DOT): Brooklyn Bridge, Manhattan Bridge, Williamsburg Bridge, Ed Koch Queensboro Bridge, Roosevelt Island Bridge, Rikers Island Bridge,Willis Ave. Bridge, Third Ave. Bridge, and a host of other bridges large and small. Yet don't these ALSO need to be maintained, fixed, and upgraded? So why do they get to operate with no toll revenue?
All of those bridges are maintain by the NYC DOT, not NYS DOT. and most of these bridges have no room for the large polls plaza..Where are you going to put the needed toll plazas that ease congestion
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azspeedbullet View Post
revenue is generated via higher taxes in some shape or form.


All of those bridges are maintain by the NYC DOT, not NYS DOT. and most of these bridges have no room for the large polls plaza..Where are you going to put the needed toll plazas that ease congestion
So IF they had room to put in toll plazas, do you think they all (or virtually all) would institute tolls?
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:13 PM
 
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There's a couple of reasons.

First off, 495 as an interstate can't be cut off exclusively through tolls- otherwise New York has to fund and fix I495 in Queens and LI.

Second- the toll booths do cause backup and traffic, and frankly should all be done away with and move to camera/plate tolling in the near future. At that time will they try to toll the east river bridges again, I'm sure- but it requires state intervention who will likely say no.

Third- 80% of the MTA TBTA tolls subsidize NYCT. The toll collection costs have minimized since EZ Pass and bridge maintenance has increased steadily- but as have all things- bridge tolls should be going down or staying the same as subway fares should rise- but it's not in the interest of the powers that be to lose that 'EZ-money".
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:34 AM
 
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It's a trade off as well...the toll bridges feed directly into the major highways, while the free bridges have to be accessed indirectly via side streets. When I was commuting in from the Bronx then down the FDR, I paid the toll on the RFK every morning as a convenience to save myself 10 (sometimes more minutes).
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:46 AM
 
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You'd have to go into the history of Robert Moses-era New York, when the transportation infrastructure was basically created in the form we understand today. Moses pioneered the use of "authorities" like the TBTA to fund huge projects without popular approval. You could basically write a big book on how we got the hodgepodge. It would be a pretty interesting book with every kind of corruption and organized crime and backroom wheeling and dealing you can imagine.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:35 AM
 
Location: NYC
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Its's another form of consumption tax.
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Old 02-13-2015, 02:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high iron View Post
You'd have to go into the history of Robert Moses-era New York, when the transportation infrastructure was basically created in the form we understand today. Moses pioneered the use of "authorities" like the TBTA to fund huge projects without popular approval. You could basically write a big book on how we got the hodgepodge. It would be a pretty interesting book with every kind of corruption and organized crime and backroom wheeling and dealing you can imagine.
I think Rockefeller was the one who hodgepodged Moses with the MTA.
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Old 02-13-2015, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Staten Island
69 posts, read 135,373 times
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Because NYC has a crime syndicate known as the MTA that has a chokehold on its citizens
It holds them up by their ankles and shakes every dime, penny, and piece of pocket lint that may be hiding in their pants
And the politicians and the police and the law just turn there heads.. Like its not there and go harass a black man selling cigarettes and choke him to death because he's a violent criminal

Welcome to NYC buddy
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Old 02-14-2015, 01:05 PM
 
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Virtually always, if I've driven a car and was to go into Manhattan from, say, Queens or Long Island, I'd park my car for free on the street somewhere in Queens (as close to Manhattan as I could or otherwise less close to Manhattan but within a reasonable or semi-reasonable walk to a subway station) where there were no restrictions on doing so and then walk to the nearest subway station to go to Manhattan. Very very few times have I taken a car into Manhattan or, if I did, it was just to pass through but not leave the car parked on the street anywhere beyond a momentary stop and certainly not choosing to pay an exorbitant parking fee to park in a garage. Even the municipal (city-run) parking garages in Manhattan can add up if staying in Manhattan for much of the day and, of course, the private parking garages would most likely all be exorbitant in cost.
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