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Taxpayers cannot fund these pensions alone. Workers have to contribute to their own pensions for a quite awhile. The other portions are funded through investments. You will never hear a politician actually say out of their mouths that they need taxes for pensions because it's not true. Its a myth fueled by the interest of those that would rather see the money go elsewhere, for whatever reason. Many workers worked for years without new contracts, and those that did receive contracts had no raises, and some salaries were cut through losing a few days of work a year.
Good point. The pension funds are invested in the financial markets, mainly bonds, stocks, other securities, and also commodities.
The state has, and will often, have to step in to cover unfunded pension liabilities. Overly optimistic investment return projections haven't helped. That "unfunded liabilities" make up money comes from.....taxpayers (citizens and businesses).
The actuarial tricks heretofore fool plenty. Including a lot of union members I'm sure. No-one really looks at the numbers. And don't give me the flannel that the contributions made by individuals can ever amount to these figures. Any one earning even 100K salary with a 401K putting their max contribution in each year with the best mutual funds on the planet will never, ever get a pot of money when they retire that could amount to such a huge annual payout for life. That's the reality.
No-one needs more than $100K a year pension in retirement. The state shouldn't be in the business of this. It should provide services based on what citizens need. Paying $300,000 pensions..... That's screwed up.
If what that article says it true very few people get those pensions. It's hardly a drop in the bucket in the overall state budget.
If you had a job that gave you a pension, you would not be complaining. It's those who don't have these deals who complain out of JEALOUSY.
Why not fight for better retirement benefits from your OWN job instead of hating on those who have better deals than you?
Or alternatively go out for better jobs yourself?
It's ridiculous. People like you scream and wail if minimum wage workers ask for more than the minimum wage at fast food, yet it kills you to see people who earn more money than you. It's like you're wallowing in misery.
Taxpayers cannot fund these pensions alone. Workers have to contribute to their own pensions for a quite awhile. The other portions are funded through investments. You will never hear a politician actually say out of their mouths that they need taxes for pensions because it's not true. Its a myth fueled by the interest of those that would rather see the money go elsewhere, for whatever reason. Many workers worked for years without new contracts, and those that did receive contracts had no raises, and some salaries were cut through losing a few days of work a year.
i would say that is not very true about them surviving nicely on investments. pension funds hit a wall in 2000 and 15 years later any existing money is up only 1.77% average REAL return using the s&p 500 with dividends reinvested as a guide since many have the bulk in index funds.
negative real returns on cash and zero real returns on bonds have hurt pension funds alot. the last 5 years grew new money nicely in the markets but existing money died on the vine.
i can tell you if i looked at my balance on my equities back in december 2000 and fell asleep for 15 years i would be like WTF! for those that had no money invested 15 years ago it is only a date but for those like myself or pension funds that had lots of money invested that was the date time stood still going forward for equities.
in fact the y2k retiree may be one of 3 retiree groups in history since 1926 to run out of miney before they ran out of time drawing 4% inflation adjusted just because things have been so poor.
Last edited by mathjak107; 02-13-2015 at 12:27 PM..
i would say that is not very true about them surviving nicely on investments. pension funds hit a wall in 2000 and 15 years later any existing money is up only 1.77% average return using the s&p 500 with dividends reinvested as a guide since many have the bulk in index funds.
negative real returns on cash and zero real returns on bonds have hurt pension funds alot. the last 5 years grew new money nicely in the markets but existing money died on the vine.
Of course different pension funds have different money managers and perform differently. You can't say they all do the same.
And their are private pension funds too. Again, they perform differently according to who is managing the fund.
most use index funds and the indexes all were pretty poor since then, in fact my own funds run by some of the best managers in the business didn't do much better. most managers under performed by alot. interest rates we know sucked as well and while you could reap nice capital gains on bonds the fact is you had to sel the bonds off to get them so then what.
were there isolated cases of managers doing well ? sure but compared to the numbers who were right in line with market averages that was like peeing in an ocean. the performance was likely on par with what you typically see and that is 80% of managers do not even beat their benchmark index's.
overall it was not a good time for pension funds and most are still feeling the effects.
most use index funds and the indexes all were pretty poor since then and under performed by alot. interest rates we know sucked as well and while you could reap nice capital gains the fact is you had to sel the bonds off to get them so then what.
were there isolated cases of managers doing well ? sure but compared to the numbers who were right in line with market averages that was like peeing in an ocean.
overall it was not a good time for pension funds and most are still feeling the effects.
Aren't you the one who says either you succeed or your fail?
New York's State pension is doing well. Michigan's doing horribly. But the thing is, Michigan's pension's fund being in the whole does not effect people in NY, does it?
New Jersey's pension was poorly managed and horrible. The pension funds for the entertainment industry guilds are doing well. The auto industry pension funds I'm told did poorly too a couple of years ago.
It depends on who was hired to run the fund. If the pension fund manages a lot of money, it's easier for them to get the best people to run it. Sort of you get what you pay for.
but as they say you can't fight the trend. there is little escaping the low interest rates and poor market performance over all we have seen.
i can't tell you how well each pension fund is doing as we would need to examine their balance sheets but one thing i can tell you is the traditional investments they pretty much make meaning equities and bonds sucked since then.
while the funds i use did better, a point or two in such under average performance means little over so many years.
some like new york have been turning to putting a portion in private equity deals, a very risky thing to do in the opinion of quite a few pro's.
If what that article says it true very few people get those pensions. It's hardly a drop in the bucket in the overall state budget.
If you had a job that gave you a pension, you would not be complaining. It's those who don't have these deals who complain out of JEALOUSY.
Why not fight for better retirement benefits from your OWN job instead of hating on those who have better deals than you?
Or alternatively go out for better jobs yourself?
It's ridiculous. People like you scream and wail if minimum wage workers ask for more than the minimum wage at fast food, yet it kills you to see people who earn more money than you. It's like you're wallowing in misery.
A teacher who moves into an administration position.... suddenly becomes immune from common sense employment and pension agreements? I don't think so.
You think its reasonable that State government oversees pensions of $300K for life, or even $500K for life. And I'm a bitter jealous loony for thinking $100K index-linked pension caps is a reasonable alternative? Ok Buddy.
As for your quote...
" People like you scream and wail if minimum wage workers ask for more than the minimum "
Wow - talk about fundamental attribution error. Absolutely no way is that me. I think minimum wage should be raised and benefits for the working poor increased. I think you doth project too much. Sounds like your the one spitting out your coffee.
Sounds more like people like you who are binary in the worldview - so common sense goes out the window and you're either screaming left or screaming right
Is anyone even looking at the membership/retirement dates?
Top guy joined 1943, retired 2012 - 69 years... what? Doubt the state will pay that for very long.
What was the % awarded for the pension at that time of joining? Same thing for all the follow-up people. Newer plans are not as generous and typically have caps. State is not going to retroactively change contract terms.
i would say that is not very true about them surviving nicely on investments. pension funds hit a wall in 2000 and 15 years later any existing money is up only 1.77% average REAL return using the s&p 500 with dividends reinvested as a guide since many have the bulk in index funds.
negative real returns on cash and zero real returns on bonds have hurt pension funds alot. the last 5 years grew new money nicely in the markets but existing money died on the vine.
i can tell you if i looked at my balance on my equities back in december 2000 and fell asleep for 15 years i would be like WTF! for those that had no money invested 15 years ago it is only a date but for those like myself or pension funds that had lots of money invested that was the date time stood still going forward for equities.
in fact the y2k retiree may be one of 3 retiree groups in history since 1926 to run out of miney before they ran out of time drawing 4% inflation adjusted just because things have been so poor.
Its true. You can go to the retirement pension websites and the controller offices and they break it down for you. You can't compare it to individual investing. The pension funds are also heavily insured.
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