Does any sense of "Brooklyn as a city" still exist? (New York: houses, buy)
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do you think the Brooklyn of today still has any sense left of being its own city, a place apart, or is that pretty much bygone by the time the 20th century ended and now as fully NYC as anyplace in the city?
Can you clarify what it means to have a sense of "being a city"? Do you mean having it's own services separate from NYC such as PD and FD? I learned recently that Brooklyn has it's own public library system (BPL) with many branches and it's own library card separate from NYPL.
I would say that residents of every borough understand themselves to be constituents of a "greater" NYC and identify very heavily with which borough they reside and which neighborhood they reside. Every borough has a borough president. When you get your NYS drivers license it reflects the borough you reside not NY, NY (save for Manhattan and Roosevelt Island).
Brooklynites, when you travel intrastate or abroad and you are asked where you are from, do you say New York City or Brooklyn?
Brooklyn has more of its own identity, I guess because Manhattan is just NYC, and Queens is splintered into Flushing, Jamaica, Jackson Heights and Staten Island is just SI. My parents say "from Brooklyn" they only say New York in reference to the state.
It definitely feels like its own city, separate from "the city", Manhattan. Often, I prefer it. There are so many unique neighborhoods with their own identities, foods, and cultures. Some of my favorites are Carroll Gardens, Sunset Park, Wykoff Heights, Bay Ridge, Ft. Greene, Prospect-Lefferts Gardens, Ditmas Park and Flatbush, and of course, I enjoy going Downtown from time to time too.
Brooklyn has more of its own identity, I guess because Manhattan is just NYC, and Queens is splintered into Flushing, Jamaica, Jackson Heights and Staten Island is just SI. My parents say "from Brooklyn" they only say New York in reference to the state.
Jackson Heights is also a part of Flushing if thinking in relative terms.
Can you clarify what it means to have a sense of "being a city"? Do you mean having it's own services separate from NYC such as PD and FD? I learned recently that Brooklyn has it's own public library system (BPL) with many branches and it's own library card separate from NYPL.
I would say that residents of every borough understand themselves to be constituents of a "greater" NYC and identify very heavily with which borough they reside and which neighborhood they reside. Every borough has a borough president. When you get your NYS drivers license it reflects the borough you reside not NY, NY (save for Manhattan and Roosevelt Island).
Brooklynites, when you travel intrastate or abroad and you are asked where you are from, do you say New York City or Brooklyn?
I say NY. When someone asks which part (which they usually do so they can seem knowledgeable about the city), I say Brooklyn. I think Brooklyn has its own pride, but we are very aware of being a part of the greater NYC and don't deny that.
Last edited by Classie; 04-12-2015 at 06:53 PM..
Reason: typo
Brooklynites, when you travel intrastate or abroad and you are asked where you are from, do you say New York City or Brooklyn?
For the most part we lead with Brooklyn, any native rather. You will know before you even ask because we'd tell you first lol. It's sort of like the saying "New Yorker first, American second", tongue in cheek, but to us it's BK first and then the city as a whole is next. I'm proud to be from Brooklyn & we're apart of New York City. Best of both worlds if you ask me.
We understand we're not a city or a separate entity from the other boroughs, literally, but I feel like our pride for the borough is so much more deeply rooted than the others (not Manhattan). The boroughs history is over 300 years you know.
They way other people see NYer's in other cities: "obnoxious", "loud"; because we love our city and not ashamed to say it proudly, is most likely the same way natives of the other boroughs see Brooklynites.
I'm biased but yeah Brooklyn as a city, to me still exist (again in my head. The city would never let BK secede from it). Why? Here's one perspective if we did separate we'd rank above a lot of other cities and would be second to only the rest of the other boroughs. Population - #4 (about to beat Chicago for 3), Best Public Transit after the other boroughs, diversity, walkable/density, architecture (growing skyline too), food, fashion, art, media etc. You get the point.
Lastly Greater NYC is Jersey, Connecticut, etc. Not the boroughs especially in 2015. That term was after the consolidation in 1898 lol.
i realize that. what i was saying is that for many years after the creation of Greater New York, Brooklyn maintained a sense of identity that made it feel like it was still a separate city.
Can you clarify what it means to have a sense of "being a city"? Do you mean having it's own services separate from NYC such as PD and FD? I learned recently that Brooklyn has it's own public library system (BPL) with many branches and it's own library card separate from NYPL.
I would say that residents of every borough understand themselves to be constituents of a "greater" NYC and identify very heavily with which borough they reside and which neighborhood they reside. Every borough has a borough president. When you get your NYS drivers license it reflects the borough you reside not NY, NY (save for Manhattan and Roosevelt Island).
Brooklynites, when you travel intrastate or abroad and you are asked where you are from, do you say New York City or Brooklyn?
none of what i was asking had any reference at all to municipality and its functions. It strictly is a question of identity and sense of place and if Brooklyn still has a feel of being a city, something it once was up to the very end of the 19th century.
So in my thinking, the Bronx doesn't have a city feel to it because it was never a city and besides, much of the growth of the Bronx was basically an extension of Manhattan (look at the street numbering system) to which the Harlem River was no barrier as it marched uptown and beyond. You've seen my paradigm of Brooklyn: once a city, still the feel of a city(?) My paradigm on the Bronx: it's the most New York of the outer boroughs because its development was merely an extension of the growth of Manhattan. the very narrow island started at its tip in the Bowery and "moved" uptown continuously. The Bronx was merely an extension of that uptown movement and treated the Harlem River as almost a drainage ditch which had no effect on its northward, uptown thrust. Indeed, the western part of the Bronx was the only part of the 4 outer boroughs that did not become part of NYC in the consolidation that made Greater New York in, I believe, 1898….it was already part of the city for NYC, pre-Greater New York, had consisted of all of Manhattan and the eastern portion of the Bronx.
Brooklyn alone of the 4 outer boroughs was its own city. If I were discussing Queens or Staten Island, I might ask if the outer neighborhoods are still very much like the villages they once were. I would think places like Forest Hills in Queens, St. George in SI and Riverdale in the Bronx come across more village like than neighborhood like, as opposed to neighborhoods like SoHo or Harlem in Manhattan which seem function as neighborhoods.
NYC and LA, our two megacities, differ from other US cities, IMHO, because so many of their neighborhoods do seem to keep the qualities of the villages they once were even though they have lost all their local municipal services. In LA, this would very much be true of communities across the valley (think Encino) and many (particularly on the westside) in the Basin (think Brentwood).
but between NYC and LA, only one place was once a real city of its own: Brooklyn. And, as I noted in the first post, Brooklyn in the first half of the 20th century (plus some change) was less than a half century removed from its own city hood and still seemed like a city. I used the Dodgers and how Brooklyn related to them in a municipal way, as "the city's" team….while the Giants belonged to another city, New York.
Brooklyn very much came across as a city. All I was asking here is: is that still true today?
and for the record: there is no "right" or "wrong" answer here. all i'm asking about is perceptions….do (some? many?) people still have the feel, a sense of place, of Brooklyn as being its own city
Lastly Greater NYC is Jersey, Connecticut, etc. Not the boroughs especially in 2015. That term was after the consolidation in 1898 lol.
studded, where did you get the idea i didn't see it the way you did…I was using the term "Greater New York" to mean the consolidation of 1898. that's why I would never have used the term "Greater NYC" because that was not the term used for the consolidation.
so basically you're lol-ing about something in which we are in total agreement.
Looking at it from the outside Brooklyn always seemed to have it's own city identity if you'd like to call it that. Growing up I'd see people wearing Brooklyn T-Shirts and Brooklyn Hats. In popular culture I'd hear song lyrics like, "No Sleep till, Brooklyn!" and see celebrities openly identify themselves as being from Brooklyn as opposed to NYC. Several movies would make a point they were set in Brooklyn. The Brooklyn Bridge is also often featured in several mediums. There's a lot of Brooklyn pride and history circulated.
You also get that with Manhattan and Harlem to a certain extent but out of all three Manhattan seemed to be the most associated with the bright lights and big NYC. I'd also see a little bit of solo identity of the above with the Bronx, but I'd have to say not so much of it with Queens or Staten Island.
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