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Old 04-24-2008, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Pawleys Island, SC
1,693 posts, read 5,948,296 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
NYPD is the NYPD...isn't that the edge that keeps recruits coming (and yes they are still coming!). The fact remains that the NYPD, no matter how the force and the Union wants to spin it, remains the PREMIERE choice for police officers, AND and EXCELLENT road to financial security and economic comfort, ESPECIALLY for those with little/bad educations, as well as those who are not "connected."
Honestly Guy, I don't think that is the case anymore. The NYPD is living off a reputation that it no longer deserves and I think that once new candidates do their research, especially those from outside the metro area, they make the discovery and fade away. Not just for the salary reasons but also because of the tremendous beauracracy that the department is.

I had argued this point for many years, especially when the pundits argued for a merge of the Transit Police & the Housing Police departments with the NYPD. The department is just too big sometimes and at 37,000 members the rank & file officer is only a number.

But money talks & BS walks, as has been said before. It is much easier to deal with the negatives an agency throws your way when you are earning what you feel you are worth.

 
Old 04-24-2008, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 852,826 times
Reputation: 209
The pension of the guys I know that are retiring today are approximately $5,000-$5,500 Per month. They get that amount becuase they hustle the last couple years with o/t and then sit pretty on a fat pension for LIFE...and yes I qualify that as a fat pension. Most people don't ever earn that much WORKING their whole lives! These guys get it FOR LIFE after just 20 years!

I don't doubt that is you added 20K-30K to just about ANY job interest would increase. The question begs, however, whether the additional money will solve the recruitment AND retention problems within the dept, because there are MUCH bigger factors at play as to why people are leaving than a 6 temporarily lowered salary for 6 months. (I have already listed my reasons.)

I in fact am the furthest from being a cop hater. I live in Mott Haven, probably the most notorious ghetto in all of the country. I am aware of the value of a well-equipped, educated, and skilled police force, as it affects me DIRECTLY and on a daily basis. And yes there have been times (many years ago) when walking outside my door I wondered whether I would also be shot, or put in some sort of life-threatening danger, because that was a reality in my community many years ago. I do not hate cops, as I do not bite the mouth that feeds me. When something goes wrong they are the first people I call, and although my prior experiences have been so-so with them, I am still glad they are there and available to assist me.

That being said, I believe the NYPD is STILL the best deal around, and considering all of the salary, lifetime benefits, perquisites, etc, it is a sound, tried-and-true path to a solid, comfortable LIFELONG financial security, especially for those who lack education, or who are not otherwise connected in some way. I recognize that the salary should be raised, the issue is, however, this will not solve the problems that are really the issue that plague the NYPD, and what causes them to lose new and senior guys. At the end of the day, you can throw money at the dept, but it will not change anything. Sure the Union's spin will quiet down, for now, but the exodus/lack of interest will continue..albeit slightly slower.
 
Old 04-24-2008, 11:51 AM
 
77 posts, read 306,266 times
Reputation: 24
Guy,

$5000/month = $60,000/year.

With a half-pay pension, that would mean they made $120,000 just before retiring, right? I think your numbers are off, because if the average cop was making $120,000, we wouldn't be having this conversation....

Last edited by ghguy; 04-24-2008 at 12:11 PM..
 
Old 04-24-2008, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 852,826 times
Reputation: 209
The average cop is not earning that....that salary is after 20 years on the force so they are earning TOP pay. Furthermore, the pension is based on the last couple years of earning, and the dept gives LOTS of O/T to guys about to retire precisely so that they can jack up their earnings and get a big pension. It's a very common practice, and quite honestly, I don't mind it at all..they earned it.
 
Old 04-24-2008, 02:37 PM
 
77 posts, read 306,266 times
Reputation: 24
Sorry, let me re-phrase.

No doubt, there are exceptions, but the average cop with 20 years isn't making any where near $120,000 - I can guarantee you that....
 
Old 04-24-2008, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 852,826 times
Reputation: 209
Although I am sure your guarantees are worth their weight in gold to friends and family, we are neither of those. My example was of MY knowledge of those in the police force, so it is entirely possible that some make more after 20 years, and some make less. However, it is common practice to provide the guys retiring MASSIVE O/T so that they can artificially jack up their salaries and get a much larger pension...which is why pensions and top/average base salaries typically do not correlate.
 
Old 04-24-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Pawleys Island, SC
1,693 posts, read 5,948,296 times
Reputation: 639
There are a few guys who are able to beef up their overtime to that level. But that is certainly not the norm, especially for guys who have families & wives that work. Furthermore, the department is not "giving" OT to these cops. Like I have said a few times before, there is an overtime cap of 35 hours a month (410 hrs annually). Some commands have a little more, some a little less. In order to reach that cap you have to work what is called "details", if available & give up many days off or make many arrests and spend alot of torturous hours at court. Still, it would be difficult to earn $120k in your final year.... and keep in mind that there is a 20% ceiling from the year before. That means you would have to earn $100k in your 19th year to max out at $120k in your final year. That is alot of time away from your family.

Now with that said, I know a guy whose pension is about $60k a year. He was a detective sergeant (making base lieutenant's pay) and had about 400 hrs overtime in his final year and a full year of night differential. He barely made the $120,000 scenario you described. It is far from the average cop earning that type of pension money. $50k a year pension may be more palatable providing he works alot of OT. And I would agree that this is not a bad pension after 20 twenty years, especially when most guys can retire from the NYPD in their mid forties. But it is not enough to sustain a family of four in the metro area. So most guys begin a second career and/or move out of state to stretch the dollar.
 
Old 04-25-2008, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 852,826 times
Reputation: 209
Yes but $4,000 a month is a heck of alot of money and gives you the opportnity, at 45 in many cases, to do whatever you want, relocated, start your own business, a new career, take time off, travel, whatever. How many people can virtually retire at 45, expecially if you have NO family!
 
Old 04-25-2008, 10:20 AM
 
20 posts, read 51,533 times
Reputation: 17
I have gone to the websites of PD from California, Washington, FL, and Long Island.


All of them offer retirement after 20 years. Most offer 42,000K plus just to be in the academy. Other also offer signing bonus of up to 10,000 and if you move to the city they offer another 5,000.

Some departments have two different paying scale depending if you have bachelor degree or not. Most only require a high school diploma or GED. Their physical exams is lower. In the NYPD you have to run 1.5 miles in 14 minutes and 28 seconds. In San Jose you will need to do it under 19 minutes and 18 seconds.

All PD offer lifetime Medical, Dental, Vision insurance. So we have to look at what make these departments much better than the NYPD.

First the starting salary is one and the ending salary is another. In most other PD you are making between 96K to 108k after 7 years. In the NYPD you make around 59k after 5.5 years and a little more after 7 years.


The other thing that is very good is that the longer you stay working for the department the higher is your retirement package. In LA for example if you making 110k in your 20th year you take home around 55% of your final year but if you stay longer then every year after 20 the percentage goes higher up to 80%. So instead of taking with you 60.5 K after twenty years of service if you wait 5 more years you can take with you 88k for the rest of your life. San Jose i think after 20 years of service its 61%.



While in the NYPD you make around 85 - 90k in your final year with overtime. Take 50% and you end up getting between 42 - 45K.


If the NYPD offer a starting salary of 40k at the academy and after 5.5 years around 75 to 80K and give you 60% after retirement I'm telling you they are not going to have these problems. I'm planning on Joining the NYPD in 3 months. But If they if any of these PD offer me starting 70K then i'm taking it.

You cannot buy a house making 58k in NYC. Also why would anyone want to work overtime to take home enough money to feed their family.


This to all of you saying that NYPD officers get Lifetime medical and pension for life get over it. 90% of PD in other cities get Lifetime pension and medical. How would you like it if you work for a company doing much more work and living in the most expensive city in USA but not getting a salary close to what other people are making doing the same thing as you but only having less work and less taxes to pay.


Also the union is just doing what is best for their members. Wouldn't you want your union to help you even if it means helping you get a job in another city. Union were meant to fight for their members in any legal way but what is best for the employer. If they do then it would like Walmart (that doesn't allow its employees to join any union or have employees meetings to setup one.)

Last edited by knight3131; 04-25-2008 at 10:47 AM..
 
Old 04-25-2008, 10:41 AM
 
20 posts, read 51,533 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Yes but $4,000 a month is a heck of alot of money and gives you the opportnity, at 45 in many cases, to do whatever you want, relocated, start your own business, a new career, take time off, travel, whatever. How many people can virtually retire at 45, expecially if you have NO family!
Let take a family of 4 with both children in college and living at home. Also even though you are retire you still need to pay something for your health insurance.

Rent (3 bedroom apartment or house) = 1,600
Gas & electricity 400
Food 400
Water 65
Cable,Internet,phone service 190
Car insurance 200
Health Insurance 150
College (parent help with children's tuition) 1200
other (entertaiment, clothing, Transportation etc) 400

Total $ 4605

NYPD officer need to retire with at least a salary of 6k to 7k per month.

That would be 72 - 84k after 50%

which means they will have to earn between 144k to 168k in the final year. I did the calculation


Salary 110,000

they will have to work 435 of overtime their pay for OT is = [Salary/ (40 hrs per wk times 52 week per year) times 1.5 = 34507

So if you have 110000 plus 34500 = 144500

take 50% of 144500 = 72250

Also when you get your salary you still need to pay federal taxes which is around 12 - 15 k

so you end up with 60,000.

Most NYPD officers end up making around 85 - 92k in the final year and get a job after they retire to make-up the difference.
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