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Most people are willing to deal with the working conditions if you pay them more. Ask anyone who is thinking of leaving their job (don't ask yourself). That if they got 20 - 25K more of whatever salary they are currently getting if they would stay. 9 out 10 will probably say yes.
LAPD have similar conditions as we do probably the only difference is that we have to deal with terrorism while they have to deal with illegal immigrants. But LAPD is not having recruitment problems because their salary is much better and retirement package is better than NYPD.
You can have fix all the problems you mentioned except the salary and you will still have people leaving and getting recruits. But if you fix the salary and leave the other bad working conditions and you will get more recruits.
At the end of the day Money Talks.
Good strategy in comparing LAPD to NYPD.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Don't compare DSNY with the NYPD. NYPD is at least 4 times the size of DSNY in terms of workforce. Thus it would cost the city more money.
I don't understand this argument. Because the NYPD is a large agency they do not deserve a salary in the area of Nassau, Suffolk, Port Authority or most other departments in the metropolitan area?
Like I said in my earlier post, the city should have planned for a substantial raise for its uniformed workforce instead of crying poverty. Oh wait, that's the argument Guy has said the unions shouldn't make... my bad.
I think that was a great post Sgt...and I applaud him for his hard work and the service he is providing to the city. Here are my thoughts:
1-According to you he has been in the business for 18 years. For me to believe that somehow TODAY he is struggling, and not able to live "comfortably" I think is absolutely wrong. He is clearly earning much more than $70,000 a year, and has been earning top pay for MANY years now. I just don't believe that after 18 years TODAY he is struggling to live comfortably...I just don't. Sounds like an issue of very poor money management rather than salary.
2-Let's go alittle further though. He has been working 18 years for the force, therefore he has JUST 2 years to retire with a pension of probably $4,500 +++ a month FOR LIFE, and lifetime medical benefits for you and your family. So again, I have to wonder how it is you are not able to live comfortably, especially considering that in 2 years he will get $4,500++ a month, and can enter a new profession and earn who knows..an extra $4,000++ on top of that?!!! Plus whatever salary you earn? That can easily top $11,000 a month+++!!! So yes, I think you will live far more than quite comfortably..and I still think you do today.
3-Yes I think salaries should go up for cops, but looking at the OVERALL package, I think it is actually very competitive and cops DO earn a comfortable lifestyle. They are not joining to be rich, but every job is hard and you don't earn much in the beginning..this is just about everywhere you go except for the specialized fields that require advanced education.
4-Look at it this way, if you are looking to join the force at 35 years old, with 2 kids, a car payment, and a mortgage....that is probably not the wisest thing to do. USE YOUR BRAIN. If you are 20-25, single, and just starting out....it is an EXCELLENT choice, and one that will prove quite lucrative, and provide you with a fat retirement at 40-45 years of age, where you can then start a new career or just retire!!!!! The force will help you get an advanced education, buy a home, and a host of other perks and benefits. Use your brain!
If you believe that salary is the cure, you are not aware of the real problems that the force faces. In addition, choosing the force when you clearly cannot afford to is your own fault!!!!
I think that was a great post Sgt...and I applaud him for his hard work and the service he is providing to the city. Here are my thoughts:
1-According to you he has been in the business for 18 years. For me to believe that somehow TODAY he is struggling, and not able to live "comfortably" I think is absolutely wrong. He is clearly earning much more than $70,000 a year, and has been earning top pay for MANY years now. I just don't believe that after 18 years TODAY he is struggling to live comfortably...I just don't. Sounds like an issue of very poor money management rather than salary.
2-Let's go alittle further though. He has been working 18 years for the force, therefore he has JUST 2 years to retire with a pension of probably $4,500 +++ a month FOR LIFE, and lifetime medical benefits for you and your family. So again, I have to wonder how it is you are not able to live comfortably, especially considering that in 2 years he will get $4,500++ a month, and can enter a new profession and earn who knows..an extra $4,000++ on top of that?!!! Plus whatever salary you earn? That can easily top $11,000 a month+++!!! So yes, I think you will live far more than quite comfortably..and I still think you do today.
3-Yes I think salaries should go up for cops, but looking at the OVERALL package, I think it is actually very competitive and cops DO earn a comfortable lifestyle. They are not joining to be rich, but every job is hard and you don't earn much in the beginning..this is just about everywhere you go except for the specialized fields that require advanced education.
4-Look at it this way, if you are looking to join the force at 35 years old, with 2 kids, a car payment, and a mortgage....that is probably not the wisest thing to do. USE YOUR BRAIN. If you are 20-25, single, and just starting out....it is an EXCELLENT choice, and one that will prove quite lucrative, and provide you with a fat retirement at 40-45 years of age, where you can then start a new career or just retire!!!!! The force will help you get an advanced education, buy a home, and a host of other perks and benefits. Use your brain!
If you believe that salary is the cure, you are not aware of the real problems that the force faces. In addition, choosing the force when you clearly cannot afford to is your own fault!!!!
I'd be curious to know how much you think it takes to live the American Dream "comfortably"? By that, I mean having a couple kids, a 3-bedroom house in a decent suburb with decent schools. To save for retirement, college, insurance, etc. If you think $70,000 is a good number, you're way off.
I know PLENTY of people that would kill to earn $70,000 a year. Here is a novel idea that I will repeat yet again from point #4 above"
4-Look at it this way, if you are looking to join the force at 35 years old, with 2 kids, a car payment, and a mortgage....that is probably not the wisest thing to do. USE YOUR BRAIN. If you are 20-25, single, and just starting out....it is an EXCELLENT choice, and one that will prove quite lucrative, and provide you with a fat retirement at 40-45 years of age, where you can then start a new career or just retire!!!!! The force will help you get an advanced education, buy a home, and a host of other perks and benefits. Use your brain!
And for some more facts, the Average Household (that's every wage earner combined in a household) income in NYC is a whopping $42,000 (approximately) per year. What does this mean? Furthermore, the MEDIAN (the exact numeric middle number, not average) income in NYC is approximately $72,000, which is just about the average income for cops in NYC after about 5 years.
What does this mean? It means cops earn MORE by themselves than the average of an ENTIRE HOUSEHOLD in NYC after just 2 years. It also means that after 5 years, cops earn, on average, the Median salary of everyone in NYC..which puts them smack in the middle.
And let's not forget, they also get a lifetime pension of easily $4,000+++ per month, plus lifetime medical for them and their families, education assistance, preferences for housing (rentals and purchases), as well as a host of other benefits and perquisites, which 90% of the rest of working people in this city DO NOT GET.
So if you are looking for a 3 bedroom house, in a decent suburb, with decent school, saving for retirement, college, insurance, and everything else....we all are too..which is why it is so expensive! The reality is NYC cops are doing as good, and better in many cases, than everyone else in NYC. Furthemore, if you are looking for the American dream, maybe you should be in another part of the country where you can easily afford a big house, good schools, 2 cars, a boat, and everything else. It is not reality in NYC for 90% of us...cops included.
As a result, the idea that cops cannot live comfortably is more an issue of poor money management, and lack of realistic goals/dreams. This is NYC...if you are seeking a nice house and everything else...it is not going to happen on a cop salary...or most salaries for that matter. That's the way it is.
I agree that they should be paid better. But I will point out that this is a problem for a lot of us!! Many of us could use and deserve a substantial raise. Granted we are not out there on the frontlines, risking our lives. But people know what they are getting into when they sign up for the NYPD. It shouldn't be, oh I'm a cop and I'm risking my life so you have to pay me better. If you deserve a raise, you deserve a raise, period.
Certainly the full medical/dental and the pension are pretty nice luxuries most of us don't have either, and cops definitely deserve those benefits.
I'm new to this board and I'm reading posts here that are a little disturbing to say the least. My brother is also a cop for the NYPD and I can tell you that his salary today is no way near in proportion to his salary 22 years ago when he first became a cop. Back then, the pay of the NYPD was equal to the cops in the suburbs. Now, they make half of what Nassau and Suffolk make. Comments being made by some, saying that because their salary is not conducive to a good family life, that they should either change careers or not have family is ridiculous. They should be paid a competitive wage at least equal to their counterparts. The fact that the City says it has NO money to pay raises is absurd. If the City is broke, as Bloomberg claims, he should be broke as well because he ran for election based on his ability to bring the City back in the black. It is my honest belief that the City can well afford decent wage increases for ALL of its uniformed services. If the City continues to underpay the Police Department, they will lose their best and brightest cops to competitors that pay more. That would be a SIN. In this day and age, where the common citizen has to worry about terrorists attacks and crime, the City needs to maintain a well trained, competent police force to protect its citizens.
It is not reality in NYC for 90% of us...cops included.
No kidding... go to San Jose.
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