The future of Washington Heights (New York, Mexico: environment, lawyer, loan)

[DAS]

A lot of what you are saying maybe correct. However African immigrants and Carribean blacks do support each other economically more so than black Americans. You see it all the time in their communities. They are able to buy a lot of goods and services from each other. Also the same for Dominicans. I don't know what the future holds for Washington Heights but right now if you are Dominican you can buy anything you need there, and get any service performed for you from another Dominican. You don't have to give your money to anyone else from another group.

You don't understand the implications fully of the physical acceptance, because you are white and you are able to see yourself in the media in a good light all the time.

Also for some Carribean and African people the US will never be home they are here to make money only. Even if they stay here, money will always be sent to their homes and they will let you know they are not Americans. This is not all but some. Maybe this will change with future generations but right now that is the way it is.

As for Black Americans this is their home. They have helped to build this country right along with everyone else. Don't compare the negativity of the last 20 years that is shown in the media to the 400 years of contributions that black Americans have made to this country. Most Black Americans have no desire to leave the country and there is no other home to go to. It doesn't matter what European blacks do over there. We all know how black people are treated unfairly in Europe and in Canada and they take more unjust treatment there.

[nyc0127]

''A lot of what you are saying maybe correct. However African immigrants and Carribean blacks do support each other economically more so than black Americans. You see it all the time in their communities. They are able to buy a lot of goods and services from each other. Also the same for Dominicans. I don't know what the future holds for Washington Heights but right now if you are Dominican you can buy anything you need there, and get any service performed for you from another Dominican. You don't have to give your money to anyone else from another group.''
I do agree with parts of this paragraph, but I think you've exaggerated the ''emphasis'' of 'communities. In 2008, communities are not very ''useful.'' They don't exist the same way they did a while ago. I think more of what you're aiming at is saying they people can live inside a little box and survive okay if they are conservatively handling their money. It is true that it's nice to share people with a common situation, but no one is going to hold anyone's hand.

If you're a Dominican immigrant living in Manhattan who makes 12 dollars and hour and your wife doesn't work and you got 2 or 3 children, you're going to live like crap. What the Dominicans, Asians and West Indians got what many inner-city African-Americans is raw cash and a work-ethnic. They could choose to where they go to buy. Some may choose to live in a box, but many don't.

The problem with poor blacks in inner parts of cities is that they're dependant on other groups on feeding them, giving them work and providing them services. Immigrants have a ''community'' that will die. If they don't believe it, they're an idiot. For lower-class blacks, they have a forced identity. People don't expect anything from them. And until this changes, life will be miserable for them. Sadly enough, they'll keep an ''identity'', but a horrible one. The immigrant's will assimilate. For some, not being apart of the physical majority will seem awkward at times, but it's part of the price you pay to coming to a country with these demographics.

Asian-Americans are more than well-aware that they'll get little physical recognition. They're only 4% of the country. Where as for blacks, it seems like the imagery we get through music, sports and other thing appears to be well above 1/8. But in certain fashions, like meeting a therapist, it's going to be less. There will be pluses and minuses on both ends, but that shouldn't have any indication on an individual's educational or economic status. We all go to the same schools and have the same market to work with. Remember, this is 2008.

''You don't understand the implications fully of the physical acceptance, because you are white and you are able to see yourself in the media in a good light all the time.''

I don't remember if you told us what your ethnic background was, but if are of Latin-American descent and are white (or mixed), than you shouldn't act as if you're any less apart of the ''majority'' appearance of this nation. Unlike West Indians, West Africans, Asians and some Middle Easterners, many Latin Americans don't share this. Many are white. One-half of those of Latin-American say they're white alone. I have no reason not to believe them.

It's not as if you just know who is of Latin-American descent by just looking. Sure, you might know if you see a name, hear one speak with a foreign accent and so forth. But by just walking in public, you just couldn't know. And if you were to get an idea for any white for that matter, it'd probably take more time than comfortably acceptable.

What we base our information off in this country is not what most do. Just like people in Europe have a better idea with Europeans, people in Africa could tell distinctions within African ethnic groups. The same thing with Asians. We don't know all of this. Most of the ''new world'' (or secondary cultures) are not accustomed to this.

Being a ''white American'' is a very broad generalization. There is much religious diversity, education levels and descents within that. In general, if we were living 50 years ago, I probably wouldn't be all that accepted by white America. It's because people had a better way of knowing these kind's of ''old world'' things. It doesn't mean they were always right, but their societies gave them permission to do what Crisp does (an ''educated guess'').

''Also for some Carribean and African people the US will never be home they are here to make money only. Even if they stay here, money will always be sent to their homes and they will let you know they are not Americans. This is not all but some. Maybe this will change with future generations but right now that is the way it is.''

They might think that at first, but when the majority have kid's and settle here, their ideas change. Like I said, if you can make money, this is a great place to be. Sure, money could be sent back home. There kid's won't be though. When those kid's live here, how much of their dating pool will consist of the same exact background as their's? Thing's used to last longer a while ago. Nowadays, it goes as far the immigrant and sometimes the first-generation.

That's how it seems in New York City because of the level of expense. You don't have to be a citizen here to live good. However, many African immigrants go to places in this country in high numbers (high for Africans, but not high for the general population) to areas where most immigrant's don't usually choose. For example, Minneapolis and St. Paul have large Somali immigrants. The Atlanta area has many. Parts of Philadelphia have this. Sometimes, they come to areas where they know aren't overwhelmingly competitive and/or expensive, because they know it will be easier to adapt to.

Part of their reluctance to claiming Americanization is because all want to leave the option open to going home. Unlike other immigrants, many of their political situations weren't so bad. They don't look down on the places they come from. Another is because many immigrate to cities and semi-urban enclaves. They can get a bad taste for how people who look like them live in this country. They want no connection to them. The advantage they have is that the are immigrants and will assimilate as if they have invisible skin. The only black's they'd be willing to integrate with will have to have class, work and be middle-class. The majority will choose to stay here and will likely lose all their culture, so this is their next best option.

''As for Black Americans this is their home. They have helped to build this country right along with everyone else. Don't compare the negativity of the last 20 years that is shown in the media to the 400 years of contributions that black Americans have made to this country.''

You're right, it is there home. In my opinion, because of most of their ancestors have been in this country much longer than whites, they are arguably the most statistically significant American group in this country. It is a real shame that things turned out the way they did today. I wish it wasn't like this. I feel horrible that many good African-American people have to get stereotyped by the horrible system's implemented in this country.

There has to be a massive integration process though. People are doing nothing to fix this themselves. This has to be done with force. I know this would never be done, which is a large reason for why the American system has proven that keeping someone down advances their prosperity. The government should set a certain date on which welfare will no longer be distributed to the non-disabled. They'll be doing it to the elderly within the next decade or two when social security dries up.

I hear a lot of white Americans (usually losers) getting pissed off because they think getting a free check is wrong. They aren't smart enough to realize what's going on though. They don't understand that the fact someone can live off that garbage is the reason why they aren't on the bottom.

If any president cared about the problem of all poverty in this country, they'd say in the year 2020 there will be no more welfare. By doing this, you could conserve more money for the elderly who didn't share the same privilege as those who have this modernized 401K system. You could implement socialized medicine. Yu could create more government jobs and give bigger tax-relief to companies to hire more uneducated people. It'd be nice to see thing's built in this country that don't got led. The other day on the Republican debate I heard Mike Huckabee talking about how building a highway would help people in all ways. This country needs to get their loser's off their asses and make them work.

Besides that though, the elimination of poverty would truly come about. You don't deserve the right to live in a capitalist country (even if it isn't your fault), if you aren't willing to work (if you are physically capable of doing so). If not, it might sound mean, but it's time for you to starve and die. And if they got children, take them, because they obviously don't love them if they aren't willing to put food on their tables. More people need to take an aggressive approach. And I'm a Democrat saying this, so you could imagine.

''It doesn't matter what European blacks do over there. We all know how black people are treated unfairly in Europe and in Canada and they take more unjust treatment there.''

You're right, it doesn't have anything to do with the blacks in this country. The difference is if they were trash, no one would have let them in to begin with. They don't allow people to live in their countries who don't work. And believe me, if you don't work in Europe, outside of medical coverage, you will live a lot worse than you would here.

That second part of the quote is bull though. I'm sick and tired of this American crap-pumping. I here all the time ''you wouldn't want to live in socialized Europe or Canada.'' It's like people love to criticize within our lines, but will put down other's. Those countries are good places to live. Yes, there is discrimination everywhere, but it's much more mild over there. The difference is the racist pro-white media that exists in this country. This media gives every reason to make a black person feel like they are vermin at birth.

I hate that put Europe down, pump America up attitude. People in this country do what ever they can to attempt to preserve their national pride. Those countries are better. There economies are better. There education is better. Our country is declining. Quite frankly, our country is beginning to suck and if someone doesn't do something to change it, we'll continue going in that direction. You say the discrimination is higher there. Compare the money blacks make there to here. That's all I got to say. Compare their education levels. They're more independent and don't care for being black. They don't allow the history of the torchering of people with ''black skin'' to effect their economic prosperity. If Jews had that approach worldwide, they'd be a lot poorer than the majority of blacks could be in the inner-city parts of this country.

[SuperMario]

NYC0127,

I must disagree with you. I can indeed tell who is latino (mulatto, mestizo) apart from others. American white and PR white don't look nearly alike. Puerto Ricans have darker hair and are not as light. Now I know that there is no set guidelines and it is hard to explain but you can just tell. I could differentiate Puerto Ricans from Dominicans aswell. Usually the lighter ones, with the better hair are Puerto Ricans. Dominicans are darker and visually have more African. But you already knew that. Another things is that if you look at a Puerto Rican closely you could see a little native American. Usually around the eyes. Not the case for Dominicans, who are really black and white. Are you telling me that you cannot tell a Mexican apart from a German? I find that hard to believe. The latinos from Mexico and Central/South America really stand out from the population. I dont know of a person who CANNOT identify a mestizo. I will give you that the PR/DR are harder to seperate from others but if you've been around them enough....you would know what to look for. Believe me when I tell you that I go up to people and ask them if they're PR/DR and I am usually right. You can line up 10 people who German/PR/Dominican descent and I could identify the Latinos. Now, I make mistakes of course but I usually am right. Call it an intuition. I am Dominican myself and have grown up all my life with Hispanics. Maybe it's hard for you to tell but it's not that hard really. So I agree with Crisp.

A Spaniard with an African mix have a specific look not like others.

And we are jumping at the Puerto Rican numbers because it's common sense. WE know that Latinos are majority a mixed. We know this from history and from seeing them in our day to day lives. So the 73% mix population of Dominicans seems about right. But to have under 20% mix of Puerto Ricans is a pure farce. Im not asking for 70% but come on 10.9 percent mixed?? That's bull****. It does not make sense. I think a reason for this erroneous result was because Puerto Ricans have been brainwashed into believing white is better. They are US citizens and have been during the time of segregation. The US when taking census did not want a large African percentage for obvious reasons...so they encouraged many Puerto Ricans to choose white even if they were obviously mixed. This idea has been passed down to following generations.

Here Wikipedia:

Certain critics consider census figures to be skewed since they are based on self-definition and acute physical observation of census-takers.[citation needed] These critics maintain that a majority of Puerto Ricans are racially mixed, but that they do not feel the need to identify as such. They argue, furthermore, that Puerto Ricans tend to assume that they are of African, American Indian, and European ancestry, and only identify themselves as mixed if having parents "appearing" to be of separate "races". It should also be noted that Puerto Rico underwent a "whitening" process while under U.S. rule. The census-takers at the turn of the 20th Century recorded a huge disparity in the number of "black" and "white" Puerto Ricans between the 1910 and 1920 censuses. "Black" suddenly began to disappear from one census to another (within 10 years' time), possibly due to redefinition of the term. It also appears that the "black" element within the culture was simply disappearing possibly due to the popular idea that in the U.S. one could only advance economically and socially if one were to pass for "white". [19]


Misinformation of ethnic populations within Puerto Rico also existed under Spanish rule when the Native Amerindian (Taino) populations were recorded as being "extinct". Biological science has now rewritten their history books. In all, about 31 African tribes have been recorded in Puerto Rico[citation needed]. These tribes were not voluntary travellers, but have since blended into the mainstream Puerto Rican population (as all the others have been) with Taino ancestry being the common thread that binds.


Many so-called "pure" blacks in Puerto Rico are found in the coastal areas, areas traditionally associated with sugar cane plantations (especially in the towns Loiza, Guayama, Ponce, and Carolina). Although, due to the DNA evidence that is being presented by UPR at Mayaguez, many African bloodlines have been recorded in the central mountains of the island, though not written in the Spanish history books of the time. Consequently, Taino bloodlines have begun appearing in the coastal towns. All this suggesting that escaped Africans ran off to the mountains to escape the slaveowners, while some Tainos remained close to their main staple food, fish.


The Puerto Rican musical genres of bomba and plena are of African and Caribbean origin respectively and danced to during parties and African-derived festivals. Many Boricuas who claim West/Central African ancestry are descendants of enslaved Congo, Igbo and Yoruba tribes from Africa. After the abolition of slavery in 1873 and the invasion of the United States, a number of African Americans have also migrated and settled in Puerto Rico.

Afro-Latin American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know not the best source but they do cite the source. Focus on the bold. To me that makes sense why 80% of Puerto Ricans would put white. The rest just shows the strong African influence in PR. The PR's in the US census made more sense...but could use tweaking. I am sorry but I do not believe that 8 out of 10 Puerto Ricans are white. Especially with a group so rich in culture and history.

[NooYowkur81]

Originally Posted by SuperMario

NYC0127,

I must disagree with you. I can indeed tell who is latino (mulatto, mestizo) apart from others. American white and PR white don't look nearly alike. Puerto Ricans have darker hair and are not as light. Now I know that there is no set guidelines and it is hard to explain but you can just tell. I could differentiate Puerto Ricans from Dominicans aswell. Usually the lighter ones, with the better hair are Puerto Ricans. Dominicans are darker and visually have more African. But you already knew that. Another things is that if you look at a Puerto Rican closely you could see a little native American. Usually around the eyes. Not the case for Dominicans, who are really black and white. Are you telling me that you cannot tell a Mexican apart from a German? I find that hard to believe. The latinos from Mexico and Central/South America really stand out from the population. I dont know of a person who CANNOT identify a mestizo. I will give you that the PR/DR are harder to seperate from others but if you've been around them enough....you would know what to look for. Believe me when I tell you that I go up to people and ask them if they're PR/DR and I am usually right. You can line up 10 people who German/PR/Dominican descent and I could identify the Latinos. Now, I make mistakes of course but I usually am right. Call it an intuition. I am Dominican myself and have grown up all my life with Hispanics. Maybe it's hard for you to tell but it's not that hard really. So I agree with Crisp.

A Spaniard with an African mix have a specific look not like others.

And we are jumping at the Puerto Rican numbers because it's common sense. WE know that Latinos are majority a mixed. We know this from history and from seeing them in our day to day lives. So the 73% mix population of Dominicans seems about right. But to have under 20% mix of Puerto Ricans is a pure farce. Im not asking for 70% but come on 10.9 percent mixed?? That's bull****. It does not make sense. I think a reason for this erroneous result was because Puerto Ricans have been brainwashed into believing white is better. They are US citizens and have been during the time of segregation. The US when taking census did not want a large African percentage for obvious reasons...so they encouraged many Puerto Ricans to choose white even if they were obviously mixed. This idea has been passed down to following generations.

Here Wikipedia:

Certain critics consider census figures to be skewed since they are based on self-definition and acute physical observation of census-takers.[citation needed] These critics maintain that a majority of Puerto Ricans are racially mixed, but that they do not feel the need to identify as such. They argue, furthermore, that Puerto Ricans tend to assume that they are of African, American Indian, and European ancestry, and only identify themselves as mixed if having parents "appearing" to be of separate "races". It should also be noted that Puerto Rico underwent a "whitening" process while under U.S. rule. The census-takers at the turn of the 20th Century recorded a huge disparity in the number of "black" and "white" Puerto Ricans between the 1910 and 1920 censuses. "Black" suddenly began to disappear from one census to another (within 10 years' time), possibly due to redefinition of the term. It also appears that the "black" element within the culture was simply disappearing possibly due to the popular idea that in the U.S. one could only advance economically and socially if one were to pass for "white". [19]


Misinformation of ethnic populations within Puerto Rico also existed under Spanish rule when the Native Amerindian (Taino) populations were recorded as being "extinct". Biological science has now rewritten their history books. In all, about 31 African tribes have been recorded in Puerto Rico[citation needed]. These tribes were not voluntary travellers, but have since blended into the mainstream Puerto Rican population (as all the others have been) with Taino ancestry being the common thread that binds.


Many so-called "pure" blacks in Puerto Rico are found in the coastal areas, areas traditionally associated with sugar cane plantations (especially in the towns Loiza, Guayama, Ponce, and Carolina). Although, due to the DNA evidence that is being presented by UPR at Mayaguez, many African bloodlines have been recorded in the central mountains of the island, though not written in the Spanish history books of the time. Consequently, Taino bloodlines have begun appearing in the coastal towns. All this suggesting that escaped Africans ran off to the mountains to escape the slaveowners, while some Tainos remained close to their main staple food, fish.


The Puerto Rican musical genres of bomba and plena are of African and Caribbean origin respectively and danced to during parties and African-derived festivals. Many Boricuas who claim West/Central African ancestry are descendants of enslaved Congo, Igbo and Yoruba tribes from Africa. After the abolition of slavery in 1873 and the invasion of the United States, a number of African Americans have also migrated and settled in Puerto Rico.

Afro-Latin American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know not the best source but they do cite the source. Focus on the bold. To me that makes sense why 80% of Puerto Ricans would put white. The rest just shows the strong African influence in PR. The PR's in the US census made more sense...but could use tweaking. I am sorry but I do not believe that 8 out of 10 Puerto Ricans are white. Especially with a group so rich in culture and history.

Mario as you get older, and maybe see more of the country, you'll run into more people that don't fit a stereotype or a mold. I've met a lot of Puerto Ricans who don't look any different than so called American Whites.

My best friend, who I met in college, is Rican, and he has reddish hair, very pale skin (he can't tan for nothing), and green eyes. Culturally the dude is Latino to the max, but racially he is White. There is no way around it.

I also met family on my mother's side in Puerto Rico. All extremely White. Blonde, green-eyed, so on and so forth. Mind you they were in tropical country and they still looked very pale.

[Guywithacause]

As I have stated already...NooyOwker....you are confusing LOOKING and BEING. LOOKING white, black, or anything else is just an expression of certain traits, it is not a racial classification! You can LOOK white, as in have red hair, green eyes, and pale skin, and be of mixed race...therefore you are MIXED, as are the majority of PRs. You can also actually BE white, and have red hair, green eyes, and pale skin...and that makes you WHITE.

Stop confusing LOOKING whatever and BEING something. They are mixed..and what you LOOK like is just a crap shoot and a genetic lottery of a whole host of races for carribean people.

[NooYowkur81]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

As I have stated already...NooyOwker....you are confusing LOOKING and BEING. LOOKING white, black, or anything else is just an expression of certain traits, it is not a racial classification! You can LOOK white, as in have red hair, green eyes, and pale skin, and be of mixed race...therefore you are MIXED, as are the majority of PRs. You can also actually BE white, and have red hair, green eyes, and pale skin...and that makes you WHITE.

Stop confusing LOOKING whatever and BEING something. They are mixed..and what you LOOK like is just a crap shoot and a genetic lottery of a whole host of races for carribean people.

That's your opinion. But the actual definition of White as a race is very vague, and the people I described would fit right in it. Do I have to post it and get it deleted again? Anyway let's just agree to disagree.

[Guywithacause]

Lol....the only definition I am using is the one most commonly used and generally accepted in this country. As a result, those that may LOOK white, but are actually mixed, are NOT white. LOOKING something and BEING something are very different and you are getting them confused. Are there exception? Yes of course there are SOME WHITE people in Cuba/PR/DR...but the vast majority are not, and although there are SOME that LOOK white, that does not mean they ARE white. That's my point....however if you just want to racially classify people based on solely their appearance...you can do it...but it is wrong.

[SuperMario]

Agreed Guy.

[NooYowkur81]

People should classify themselves as whatever they want to classify themselves. Unless you know specifically the lineage of someone, how can you say what they are. I think racial classifications are dumb, and any chance I get to point out the flaws and how vague they can be, I will point them out. People can go ahead and follow every one else without thinking and reasoning for themselves. Hey do you.

[Guywithacause]

I agree with that NooYowkur......at the end of the day people are classfiying themselves however they want..which is why 80% of PRs are "causasion." It is prevalent already.