The future of Washington Heights (New York, Inwood: credit, military, work)

[NooYowkur81]

What would happen in DR often is that the White people would marry white people, but there would often be a lot of extramarital relationships also which involved mixing of races. So yes, a lot of mixing did occur. With no birth control, so you could imagine. Such is the case with my direct family.

Dominicans also have very little Taino in them. It's pretty much negligible. I cringe whenever I hear a Dominican speak proudly about their "Taino roots" but belittle their African ones.

I have a whole side of my family that is White, through my White Grandfather and his legal White wife.

However the overwhelming majority of Dominican immigrants are mixed (Black and White) or Black.

[nyc0127]

''Ok nyc0127, my first comment would be: PLEASE! When you reply to a post, click the quote button on the bottom right hand part of the post that you are responding to. That way it is easy to tell who's post you are replying to.

My only real comment is that those former residents of Inwood were very much Irish. The vast majority immigrated from Ireland to the USA, and Inwood was a heavily Irish neighborhood until the late 1970s or early 1980s.
That is when the Dominicans began to move in.''


I'd do that, but look at how long my posts are. I try to hit on the key points by re-phrasing. I've been copy and pasting the messages from the person who I am responding to. If you're confused, just ask me. It shouldn't be that difficult to know what part I'm responding to.

I'm not arguing that the neighborhood was technically of predominate Irish ancestry (within European-American Christians) before the late 70's or early 80's. I'm saying they weren't Irish, because by that era (and well-before) there was no such thing. Read what I said in my first couple messages. What will being of Irish descent ever do for you or anyone else who is? It's completely obsolete. What good is coming out of it? It's nothing more than an annoyance and a forced title.

Any white person could say they are Irish and no one would challenge them. That works the same with everyone and every European nationality. Even if I was wrong though, not every person was of Irish descent though. There were many Jews and other groups.

What I'm saying is that the ''ethnic'' title was dissolved. During that era, the importance of religion was dwindling too. Life was becoming more expensive so people weren't do the same jobs a good generation from the 70's. It wasn't about being of the same descent that made that neighborhood what it was at the time. Irish culture isn't like others. If you were to go to Ireland, people wouldn't pride themselves in Irish. The first Irish Protestants to come to America could have cared less too.

The only ones who ever cared for being Irish were poor Catholic immigrants who were treated like garbage. It made them feel more protected to band together. After a little while (like around 1920), the title just wasn't needed anymore. In fact, those descendants were likely to treat the newer immigrants like crap.

In a place like Inwood, it was that everyone in their own way kind of knew each other, similar professions and common problems. That doesn't mean it was about being ''Irish.'' The same could be said about being of German descent in a little town in Nebraska or Wisconsin. Similarly, 150 years ago their ancestors moved there. Many of the same towns have the same exact people. On historical terms, those places are known for German immigration, but did people self-identity as Germans in the 70's or now? No.

If it is to your belief that people are ''Irish'' or anything else that would seem completely obsolete in either this or that generation, than go ahead and live in your own world. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with eachother.

[nyc0127]

''What would happen in DR often is that the White people would marry white people, but there would often be a lot of extramarital relationships also which involved mixing of races. So yes, a lot of mixing did occur. With no birth control, so you could imagine. Such is the case with my direct family.

Dominicans also have very little Taino in them. It's pretty much negligible. I cringe whenever I hear a Dominican speak proudly about their "Taino roots" but belittle their African ones.

I have a whole side of my family that is White, through my White Grandfather and his legal White wife.

However the overwhelming majority of Dominican immigrants are mixed (Black and White) or Black.''

That is partly true. However, if that were true, more of the Dominican Republic would be of white ancestry. The Dominican Republic does their own census. It's likely that more than 17% of their government is white. Why would they say their country is less than what their country actually is?''

Although many of the slave-masters were dishonest and cruel, not every single one was a rapist. Believe it or not, there still are whites in the Dominican Republic. In Puerto Rico, it's much more common. White blood would be more significant than black blood to white blood in Puerto Rico. I know that statement is much less in effect in the Dominican Republic.

The same thing could be said in America. 30% of African-Americans have white in them. I'm sure the number is similar for African descended-Dominicans and African descended-Puerto Ricans. However, very few whites in the south have black in them. White southerners and white Puerto Ricans/Dominicans also share that they have a little indigenous ancestry in them.

I'm sure mixing in the Dominican Republic is a little more common than it was in Puerto Rico. If that were true of Puerto Rico, more of there population would be recorded as black. Full whites are more common in Puerto Rico and Cuba because there were much less imported slaves to the island of Hispanola.

It's obvious that the slave to slave master population was ridiculously disproportional. One slave-master/planter would have had to own 4 to 5 slaves at an average. In Puerto Rico, their statistics are more representative of what a less black state in the south would be. I am in full agreement that most Dominicans are either black or a mix. However, for those of Puerto Rican descent, the demographics are much different.

It is a big problem for those who do take interest into their Dominican heritage, are neglectful and care so little for their African roots. I'm sure part of it is because it's somewhat depressing. The fact they're neglecting this though will backfire much more in this country, than it will in the D.R.

The reason is because Dominicans in a generation or two will be forced into a fully assimilated racial identity that they've neglected for so long. That won't be accepted well by the African-American community. Many won't live in the same enclaves, know the same people or even contain Catholicism. Things will not be easy.

Also, I won't be responding to anymore message tonight. I probably won't tomorrow or much of the weekened either. I'll get back to all your messages eventually though if you choose to respond.

[SuperMario]

Originally Posted by NooYowkur81

Dominicans also have very little Taino in them. It's pretty much negligible. I cringe whenever I hear a Dominican speak proudly about their "Taino roots" but belittle their African ones.

Explain this too me. I am Dominican and would like to know why this is the case.

[DAS]

The reason is because Dominicans in a generation or two will be forced into a fully assimilated racial identity that they've neglected for so long. That won't be accepted well by the African-American community. Many won't live in the same enclaves, know the same people or even contain Catholicism. Things will not be easy.

I don't think this is true. Society cannot force any person that identifies with a certain group into another group. Dominicans that identify with their heritage will have more in common with each other culturally than they would with an African American that has ancestry in America for over 200 years. An African American with over 200 years of ancestry here, has more in common culturally with people of Wasp, Irish and Scottish ancestry that came here in the 1600's, 1700's and early 1800's. Indeed most actually share the same ancestry with African blood.

Most African Americans can trace their lineage and can even identify their white ancestors. It's something that no one really talks about outside of families because it is a painful ancestrial memory.

I wouldn't think that Dominicans would have to choose to be African American, even if they are more of African descent this would not be a situation that they will have to face politically, or socially if they maintain their heritage and continue to own their own businesses and pursue higher education as they are doing in this city and now all over the US since a lot of new immigrants from DR bypass NY altogether and settle elsewhere in the US for more opportunities.

Also I don't think there will ever be a situation where African Americans would not accept a person of Dominican descent and heritage. It may be the other way around because as a group African Americans are least accepted by any other group, but as individuals that may be a different case. African Americans for the most part accept different people of African descent from all over the world.

Also as you can see from the gentrification of many areas that African Americans accept people from all over the world period even though others will flee, or try to push them out of areas rather than live around them.

[mead]

nyc0127, I think you are a little bit confused. When I say the people in Inwood were Irish, I don't mean they were Irish-American. I mean they physically came to the USA from Ireland (probably back then they actually took a boat over here) and moved to Inwood. The same situation exists in my neighborhood, where a lot of the people were born in Ireland and then moved here in their 20s/30s.

There aren't many neighborhoods with ongoing Irish immigration, so most people don't think that such places like these even exist anymore, but there are a couple of them. I think there are larger neighborhoods up in Boston like this though.

[SuperMario]

Originally Posted by nyc0127

As far as Washington Heights having a ''Dominican'' flavor for a long time, that is partly true, but more false. In the regard that is where many of their ancestors technically come from will be true. Anyone who is of Dominican or Puerto Rican descent and intelligent would tell you that Dominican culture is a mix of a lot of things. Therefore, it would be even more difficult to hold onto for a long period of time (especially in this speedy modern-day era).

It isn't natural Chinese, Italian or Nigerian culture. It had to be assemled by more than one group. More than three quarters of their population is of African descent, yet almost everything about their culture is from Western Europe. Eventually, when the ethnic title of being Dominican dissolves, that 75% of Dominican descent in the NYC and Washington Heights will be in an awkward position..

I couldn't disagree more. 75% of Dominicans identify themselves as "mixed". Why are you assuming that 75% said they were of African descent only? In fact there are more of pure spanish descent (16%) than pure African descent (11%). The term "mixed" doesn't make them black. You are forgetting to mention their spanish and to a lesser extent Taino roots. Why shouldn't they celebrate their western European roots? It so happens that many decide to choose those European roots because it's "the mother country" to many Dominicans, their language originated from there and quite frankly they dont want to associate themselves with being slaves. I have no problem with that. Both Spanish and African are in Dominican blood, yet you criticize them for recognizing one (Spanish) but denying the other (African). It's their right to choose which they prefer since they are BOTH, not African only.

Also you also assume that being mixed means they look black in appearance. You say that in a few decades when Dominicans assimilate entirely, this 75% would be no different from regular blacks. This makes me ask the question, Have you ever seen a Dominican? I am mixed. So I am part of that 75%. Yet my skin color is more light than dark, enough so that if you ever accuse me of being black you would get laughed at. Sure I have African features, hair, nose, lips etc........That is why I am mixed, and not black. There are alot of that 75% (mixed) who are not dark of skin. I wont deny that there are some who despite being mixed, are black, but I take offense to you assuming we would be looked at as no different than black americans. This point is true for the 11% (African) but not the mixed majority.

I have a hard time believing that 80% of Puerto Ricans are white. I personally know ALOT of black Ricans. If that were the case then I would be hard pressed to find any black Ricans. I think this is more of a case of Puerto Ricans denying their African heritage moreso than Dominicans. Also I believe that the 16% white Dominican is an undercount. I wont deny the fact that in general PR's are lighter than DR's but thats too big a discrepancey IMO. I say its more like 60% for PR's and 25% for DR's in terms of being white. I would not put too much weight into these numbers. It's really a persons opinion on how they view themselves. How do you know there being truthful? Also alot of the mixed Ricans would sway to one side (white in this case) resulting in the low mixed count. Unless im missing something, but there were also slaves in PR and Cuba.....so stop making DR look like Africa.

[crisp444]

Good post, SuperMario. Most Dominicans are neither "black" nor "white" in the traditional sense; most appear to be a mix of the two. Most Dominicans in NYC are mixed and I wouldn't want to force anyone to "pick" black or white when they are clearly mixed.

The demographics of Puerto Ricans in the NYC area versus on the island itself do vary: most Puerto Ricans in this area appear to be mixed; not pure "white" or "black." On the island itself, the majority of the people are (virtually) non-mixed white with a large minority of mixed people and a fairly small minority of black people. Most Puerto Rican people I encounter in NYC are pretty mixed actually, they just tend to be lighter-skinned than Dominicans.

[nyc0127]

''Explain this too me. I am Dominican and would like to know why this is the case.''

I know like I'll sound like I'm beating a dead horse for saying this. You may be Dominican now, but your children and grandchildren won't be (outside of a technicality if you married a woman who was technically). Although NooYowkur81 made this post, I agree with the point he made. I could understand why he made that post. The reasoning is a little complicated, so that is why it might seem confusing. One reason is because African roots in the United States socially equals the word black. Unlike others who would hold back because they fear that they might sound too controversial (and because someone might assume they're ''racist''), I'll tell you straight up why.

There is the American way of looking at this and the Dominican Republic version of this. For those who grew up in the U.S. or are of first-generation Dominican descent, African roots (or black) are tied into to the national identity of African-Americans. Although the overwhelming majority of African-Americans aren't treated unfairly in 2008, they're socially on a lower pedestal. They're expected to go to college less, make less money, go to prison more and have more babies out of wedlock.

There are large stereotypes in this country (from both blacks and non-blacks) such as African-Americans being tied into poverty and crime. People don't expect as much success from African-Americans. Although the stereotype is wrong and unfair, the statistics that go behind them can't go ignored either.

Dominican immigrants (like all immigrants) want a fresh start when they get here and don't want to be judged poorly. They don't even want the littlest possibility. If there is one thing that most blue-collared foreigners pride themselves in, it's their work ethic. No male immigrant would move to this country if they didn't have the aspiration of working had. And if they didn't work, they'd know something was wrong because their parents and most of their neighborhoods are hard-working

The only place in the country where most African-Americans are up to par is the rural south and suburbs.
Very few Dominican immigrants have moved to the south (or rural). Most Dominican immigrants have moved into Northeastern cities or semi-urban places. Foreigners take time to adjust to the American lifestyle. It can be overwhelming in the beginning. Like all in society, much of their information off of what is told to them. Most that is told about African-Americans isn't positive.

They come into contact with African-Americans all the time in their neighborhoods. In many ways, they're in competition for the same jobs. There is often hostility between foreign blacks and African-Americans. This can be even more accelerated with West Indians, being that they socially accepting to the title black. Unlike the collectivist idea of be proud to be black though, West Indians live as individuals. Regardless of whether they view being black positively or negatively, they let it be neutral to their economic prosperity. That is why they do much better for themselves economically and assimilate.

Being that this problem is an African-American problem, not a black problem, black immigrants don't want to being stereotyped. The only way African-Americans could become equally as economically stable and educated as the rest of the country is if they stop using the past the rag and stopped making excuses. More than half of African-Americans have made it though. The other half hasn't though. It might not sound ''not nice'', but the only way where the majority of African-Americans could become middle-class is if they put the past where it belongs. That means to leave it for the books. Slavery and discrimination existed in Latin America and the West Indies too. People don't let it be a defense mechanism to alternating a good quo though.

My theory is that if there is no reference, there is no reason for irrelevance. In other words, if no poor African-Americans are around, there would be no reason for someone of that descent to be poor anymore than the rest of Americans. If you lived in Alaska for example, what excuse could there societally be if you optionally chose to move there? A big problem is the parents lack of success.

That is why adopted black children from non-black families often turn out more wealthier. This is the only way. The only other suggestion I could give to a poor African-American would be to not have any children. Forgetting about the idea of ''blackness'' would promote the idea of moving to the suburbs. That would promote self-reliance. No one will hold your hand in the suburbs or the south. You have to make your own money to survive, and if you don't, you'll suffer much worse than you would in a city. Just look at New Orleans.

Being that no one will hold your hand in capitalism, the idea of any community is useless. This applies to both immigrants and blacks. The only people who need communities for are people who can't handle their business independently. When it was a fight for civil rights for African-Americans, it was a fight against mistreatment, but even more unnoticed, collectivism too. By defeating the collectivist idea, the threat of the past coming back wouldn't exist. This wouldn't be a black fight though because integration is done individually.

The identity and social construction of ''blackness'' needs to be deleted. If a black person were to be educated and make more money, they shouldn't feel any more proud than a white person who was to do it. When a white male is middle-class or wealthy, he is not proud of that because he's white. In fact, the only white person that would be proud to be white would be low-class and not socially accepted. It shouldn't be any different for any African-American, and until it is, they'll still be economic divisions.

For as different as both the culture African-Americans and African descendants in Spanish-speaking Latin America is, almost all don't ''embrace'' their African roots, so it's not about interest levels. Almost all European descendants on the Western Hemisphere don't either. The difference is that the European culture was made the way of life on this hemisphere, where as African culture was ignored and forgotten. Very few African descendants on the western hemisphere have been there, even though it's not over-expensive.

Yes, there are a few yuppie-ish people who say they practice Kwanzaa (which is actually from Eastern Africa, which represents almost no blacks on the western hemisphere descent) and dress in foreign clothing and name their kids names that make no sense. They represent very little of the population though. Not being interested in heritage is a common thought of all Americans. Most whites could care less for what their heritage is (i.e. because it does nothing ; it's boring and dry; and they're probably mixed).

Than you have the issue within the Dominican Republic and Spanish speaking Latin America is much different. You could use the Spanish inquisition as a representation as the demanding ways of enforcing all to adopt to their ways. They would not allow minor pictures within the big picture. That is why Spain expelled Jews and Muslims in 1492. There is no social construction of ''blackness'' in Latin America (If there is any, it would be a modern thing anyway). All have been taught to live under the same social rule there for a long period of time.

Being that the Dominican Republic is much more black than it is white though, it has to feel very awkward that they're living under a way of life enforced by European visions (i.e. the Spanish language, Catholicism). Personally, if I was an African-descendant in the Dominican Republic, I'd say what is wrong with this picture all the time. To prevent societal depression though, it is promoted not to think with the philosophy I use. Being black there is normal. No one is going to pound you into the ground for being black there. Therefore, if black Dominicans were to say something there, not many could challenge them.

Therefore, if people who are more than clearly black say they're ''Taino'', no one is there to challenge them. They're not doing it to embrace Taino heritage, because most aren't and don't know much about it. They're doing it as a scapegoat to accepting the enforced neglect of African culture. They're doing it as a to still to deny that their black, while still embracing the Dominican heritage. If you were to say you were of Spaniard heritage and you were black though, you'd be looked at like an idiot. In a place like Puerto Rico, there are whites to challenge them. That is why the scapegoat for Puerto Ricans of African descent claiming Taino heritage is much less.

Because few know what a Taino should look like, some feel the lines are gray, so they could get away with what ever they want. The whites there don't have to be proud of their Spaniard heritage for two reasons though. One, just like Americans and Canadians, if you are the majority and icon of you're society, the need for anything else doesn't exist. People don't like living in the past. The second reason is because a Spaniard descended Dominican would be like a like Australia with British heritage. That would that the societal structure the Dominican Republican has been engraved with Spaniard influence. Therefore, it would be like a continuation of the former society.

[nyc0127]

''I don't think this is true. Society cannot force any person that identifies with a certain group into another group. Dominicans that identify with their heritage will have more in common with each other culturally than they would with an African American that has ancestry in America for over 200 years. An African American with over 200 years of ancestry here, has more in common culturally with people of Wasp, Irish and Scottish ancestry that came here in the 1600's, 1700's and early 1800's. Indeed most actually share the same ancestry with African blood.

Most African Americans can trace their lineage and can even identify their white ancestors. It's something that no one really talks about outside of families because it is a painful ancestrial memory.

I wouldn't think that Dominicans would have to choose to be African American, even if they are more of African descent this would not be a situation that they will have to face politically, or socially if they maintain their heritage and continue to own their own businesses and pursue higher education as they are doing in this city and now all over the US since a lot of new immigrants from DR bypass NY altogether and settle elsewhere in the US for more opportunities.

Also I don't think there will ever be a situation where African Americans would not accept a person of Dominican descent and heritage. It may be the other way around because as a group African Americans are least accepted by any other group, but as individuals that may be a different case. African Americans for the most part accept different people of African descent from all over the world.

Also as you can see from the gentrification of many areas that African Americans accept people from all over the world period even though others will flee, or try to push them out of areas rather than live around them.''

I'm not sure which part you disagree with, but it would be hard to believe that the overview of assimilation isn't true. This is nothing against Dominicans, but something that all Americans who have voluntarily immigrated to this country have shared.

Truthfully, you're right, no one could physically force anyone to identify with a group. Things aren't done with force though. In fact, many things just happen unnoticed in this country. For example, if you asked a southerner when did the true feel for the southern culture really come about, they'd have a hard time answering that question.

You say those who identity with their Dominican heritage will not be assimilated into the African-American face. That is where the problem is. You're going with a best-case scenario. Even if you had that for a generation or two, what about after? You're not taking a realistic look at this. You have to get pass that point to pose an argument. That is why you couldn't make an argument about them not knowing the same people, living in the same areas or practicing Catholicism. What makes you believe people will self-identify? Why would it be necessary once they're assimilated?

We live in a modern and expensive world. It's very demanding. There is no time to breathe. As others point out on here, assimilation is faster and accelerated in New York because of it's level of expense and education. Look at all the major points I made in why the government implemented the term Hispanic too (because it speeds up impoverished generations following immigration). It may not be Dominicans fault, but everything is working against them.

You're right that African-Americans would relate more to the European-Americans who came hundreds of years ago in terms of how American they are. The same would be true to those of Spaniard and African descent in Latin America. That isn't what I'm arguing about though. What I'm saying is that history has a way of seizing to exist the day you step in this country. I wish it wasn't it like this, but it is.

With a secondary culture (like Dominican, Puerto Rican, American or Canadian) that was created within the last 500 years, the cultures aren't concrete. If you were to leave, you could pick parts out and leave out others. That isn't true internationally true though. Most importantly, you have to understand the history of your ancestors, before claiming that is who you are today. That requires some intellect and thinking outside the box. For those who do realize everything I'm saying, they wouldn't want to embarrass themselves by claiming that is who they are. They may understand the history, but acknowledge that it's gone. I guess we all have our day dreams though.

What happens is people take the parts out they like, but not all parts. For example, those of Puerto Rican descent in New York that like to cutely pretend their heritage actually matters and exists, look at what they take out. Even if they were more conservative and not as delusional as they sounded, how many would know that their ancestors whipped the crap out of African slaves? It's not as if they don't think about their heritage. It's not like this overwhelmingly difficult to put two and two together.

''I wouldn't think that Dominicans would have to choose to be African American, even if they are more of African descent this would not be a situation that they will have to face politically, or socially if they maintain their heritage and continue to own their own businesses and pursue higher education as they are doing in this city and now all over the US since a lot of new immigrants from DR bypass NY altogether and settle elsewhere in the US for more opportunities.''

What happens if they didn't maintain their heritage though? Once the Spanish language is gone, than what? Than it's nothing more than a headache. It's like Malik Rose to the Knicks. He makes 7 million a year, but barely plays. At that salary, he's useless. My comparison is that a minimum salary compares to how much someone should feel their heritage is. Basically, understanding your history is important, but that's as far as it should go.

Although New York, New Jersey and south Florida aren't the only places where Dominican immigrants settled in the 80's and 90's, they're the most statistically significant. In the new places where people may spread out to, how will they be able to find people that have the same heritage as their's? Regardless of who you are, the day you mix, is the day your heritage dies (even people in their own world know that). A Dominican-American marrying someone of ''Puerto Rican'' descent equals the same thing as someone of German background marrying someone of Irish background.

This wouldn't even be true if they moved to a place that lacked caribbean immigrant though. What happens if they moved to California? There is very few (almost no one) of Cuban or Puerto Rican descent there. Surely, they could irritate themselves and give themselves such a little box to look in, but how could they continue this pattern? They wouldn't want to. You're talking about places where one in every x amount of thousand people share the same heritage. You'd have to purposely say to yourself that you couldn't date the whole world in fear that you might marry them. Even for those who are interest in their heritage, they aren't willing to live that kind of lifestyle.

The other thing that destroys heritage is moving to places that aren't natural to you (i.e. not the ethnic enclave your ancestors moved to like Washington Heights). You can't hold onto your heritage in the suburbs without enforcing an irritating title upon yourself. I know it sounds ironic, but this is how it is. In more enclosed inner-city environment, the idea of collectivism exists more in the sense of sharing the same history as the people who live with you. Therefore, it elevates possible creativity that can elevate your individualism (i.e. bilingualism). In the suburbs, being that all people have variating histories, that creative element of identity possibility is not there. However, the individualism is there because of the self-reliance.

What happens when Dominican-Americans spread out though? They will mix into the African-American population. The same thing with happen to those of different Asian backgrounds. People who are Chinese and Korean will lose their heritage. Sometimes people will change their religions or not care enough to only marry those within the same. However, there will be a societal obligation to marrying those who look like you. Similarly to affluent blacks, most Asians are open-minded enough to dating people outside their ethnicity, but still usually only marry people of there background.

It is not by means of Dominicans integrating into their culture, but rather going along with the American societal trend of psychologically only wanting to marry people who have the same color skin as you. Being black is understood as a physical appearance more than it is a culture. If you forget about your heritage (as many have in this country), the social construction of race still exists. It just exists at a lower volume for those who have their own personal individualism and success.

When Dominicans lose their culture (as well as interest) and/or can't even find people who share something remotely similar, they'll marry into middle-class African-Americans. Even if anyone was pathetic enough to acknowledge partial heritage, the continuance of African-Americans would follow that trend further diluting Dominican heritage. Being that most African-Americans are Protestant, somewhere down the line they'll lose Catholicism. They'll also lose their Spanish last names. As I noted before, they will have higher standards of who they'll marry though. They will not marry blacks who aren't middle class (or close). West Indians,and middle-class whites/Asians wouldn't either. That is why the assimilation I'm saying will happen won't necessarily be the worst thing.

You're right, there never will be a situation where an African-American doesn't accept a person of Dominican descent. Hopefully though, those who deny or neglect their black heritage likely wouldn't express their views. As I noted though, the idea of blackness (and collectivism) has went away within affluent African-Americans.

The unnecessity of being black for African-Americans will have something in common with those Dominican-Americans who's ancestors have neglected their ''blackness.'' Although the reasoning is different, both will share the fact that being black won't be important. However, in the American society we live in, there will still be a close-minded obligation to marrying those who look like yourself. Although that's a problem worldwide, it's accelerated in America because of the social isolation and non-intellectualism. More mixing will occur when there is integration and assimilation for all.

I agree with the point you made about gentrification. The reasons for why African-Americans are accepting to foreigners vary though. African-Americans who live in New York City have always lived around immigration and diversity. so they're used to it. One reason is that African-Americans in NYC have always lived around high percentages of foreigners, Jews and people who don't fit the traditional white America. Another is that they respect that the immigrants are willing to move there and live with them. And the third reason is that many African-Americans in inner parts of this city don't have a choice, because many don't have enough money to have one.

For those whites who bolted out, they're a coward. They didn't want to live around people that didn't look like them. You'd probably hear a stupid smart remark like oh would they want to either though? Instead of just coming to the clear conclusion of this. I'm white and my family used to live in Brooklyn, so I'm not bias.

Therefore, I have no sympathy for people like BXgrl, white people's parents/grandparents from places like Inwood or even in some ways, my own ancestors. Why don't they talk to us on here about why their grandparents left? Why did Mead say that the stories he hears saddens him? It should sadden him more for the reasoning why they left (because they were cowards and bigots). Even if the quality of the neighborhood of this area has gone down, it's not hell.

For BXgrl's mother's to have the idea of what the Washington Heights area has become is heavily influenced by lower-class isolated-oriented racism. It's not her fault, because that's how many whites were raised in their neighborhoods. They were taught that the reason why they lived okay (and safe) lives was because blacks didn't live with them. They couldn't confront the fact that they weren't the most educated nor affluent whites. It should bring a tear to there eye that there parents and grandparents were bigots and other things (i won't say it, but it starts with a p lol).

Why did they leave? Why didn't they buy out the apartments? It's not like the whites were dirt poor. In fact, they weren't that bad. They could have paid higher rent. As one said on here, they could have fought for there neighborhood. Or even better, co-existed. It's not like they moved to places where people did look like themselves, but they had a phobia against both blacks and poor immigrants. Could you imagine how bad those whites freaked out when they got both in one?

The apartment owners knew they could take advantage of immigrants who wanted to live around people of the same group. They knew they didn't have to fix up their buildings because they were poor and vulnerable. At the time, the Dominican immigrants knew little and were reluctant to exercising other choices.

People talk about the desirability of the suburban feel, but that is heavily linked the social idea of whiteness (being that the idea was created most by them). It is linked with education and affluence. It might sound inappropriate, but in that regard, the more assimilated and educated all are to become, the most similar they'll become to white suburban person. Even in cities. There is no other way to say it, because it's true.