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Old 05-18-2015, 10:01 AM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 7,627,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MemoryMaker View Post
Affluent INNER-Suburbs will remain strong. These are the towns that have good train access, walkability, amenities and top notch public schools.

Affluent OUTER-Suburbs will experience decline. These are those far out subdivisions in the middle of knowhere, 2hr+ commutes and growing heroin/drug problems.

Tons of people have zero desire to live in the craziness of Manhattan.

Thanks for the nuance here.

Its like saying "cities are cities" - we all know East St. Loius ain't NYC. Similarly with easy-access older established railroad suburbs (some of which commutes to the city are shorter than many outer boro areas). Suburbs (despite the modern-day implications of the term "suburban"!) vary in character, convenience and desirability.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:02 AM
bg7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale View Post
The outer-suburbs weren't really all that affluent in the first place unless in a setting for urbanites second homes. For the most part they attracted people who wanted bigger homes but couldn't afford them in the inner-suburbs. And correct, the inner-suburbs should be fine as long as they can continue to fund their educational system. Unfortunately for them, they'll probably have to continue raising their taxes for the foreseeable futues. If the boros can make their schools competitive, than much of the suburbs will become redundant. With the mentality of these city kids you see these days, that ain't happening anytime soon.

Easy to do that - raise city property taxes. Then you'll have piles of cash to throw at the problem...
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:04 AM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 7,627,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Not true. There is tons of wealth in the Outer Boroughs. Outside of the Hamptons (which is more a second home community than a suburb), there is no suburban part of NYC that has similar prices as the highest end parts of Brooklyn.

In Gravesend, Brooklyn, raw land for a fairly small lot for a new construction single family home can cost 10-15 million. You won't even pay that for a giant lot in backcountry Greenwich.

That's for a specific ethnic-driven niche market. Not really relevant.
And Brookyln ain't no "outer" boro" no more!
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Old 05-18-2015, 11:04 AM
 
2,268 posts, read 2,210,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MemoryMaker View Post
Affluent INNER-Suburbs will remain strong. These are the towns that have good train access, walkability, amenities and top notch public schools.

Affluent OUTER-Suburbs will experience decline. These are those far out subdivisions in the middle of knowhere, 2hr+ commutes and growing heroin/drug problems.

Tons of people have zero desire to live in the craziness of Manhattan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Thanks for the nuance here.

Its like saying "cities are cities" - we all know East St. Loius ain't NYC. Similarly with easy-access older established railroad suburbs (some of which commutes to the city are shorter than many outer boro areas). Suburbs (despite the modern-day implications of the term "suburban"!) vary in character, convenience and desirability.

Yep. I think of a multitude of Nassau County municipalities/jurisdictions (towns/villages/cities/Census-designated places) and they feel, to a good degree, like an extension of Queens . . . with a street/grid pattern conducive to extended walking, walkable shopping districts, public buses, train service, apartments (along with single-family and sometimes even multi-family homes), and so on. When I'm in many of these municipalities/jurisdictions (e.g., Hempstead, Garden City, Mineola, Rockville Centre, Freeport, Baldwin, Merrick, Roosevelt, Long Beach, Westbury, New Hyde Park, Great Neck, Farmingdale, Hicksville, and others), I don't feel like I'm wholly cut off from urbanity and hence don't feel a continual drive to go into the city (NYC) to get my fix for urbanity. These areas have their own urban-like character (though usally less-denser developement than the actual 5 boroughs all-in-all). But it is urban enough to usually satisfy me (and yet also suburban enough to satisfy me).

What I said above is not reflective of the typical imagery of "suburb" in the USA (i.e., consisting near-entirely of multitudinous housing developments or subdivisions ending in cul-de-sacs and then nearly all shopping consisting of shopping centers and malls, and being wholly car-dependent). It is like a good much of Nassau County is like "Queens East" . . . and, in fact, what is presently called "Nassau County" used to be part of Queens until 1898. When
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Old 05-18-2015, 11:27 AM
 
9,882 posts, read 7,676,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Easy to do that - raise city property taxes. Then you'll have piles of cash to throw at the problem...
Something tells me they'd take that money and light it on fire somewhere in a school district that only serves the underprivileged, further chasing the middle and working class out of the city.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:06 PM
 
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Oh give me a break. The heroin problem started in the city, where it's still raging. Some of it has migrated out there, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts it still worse in the city.

Kids do belong in the 'burbs. The 'burbs were explicitly built for families with children. Look at the issues of educating kids in the city. Unless you happen to be in the catchment for one of the few good schools in the city, the public school your kid is likely to go to will be mediocre at best, and likely worse than that. If you're a parent that cares, you'll then have to look at private school, which is a terrible idea financially. If you have two or more kids, your talking $40K+ a year in tuition. You can move to a 'burb with a top public school system, and between what you'd save in tuition, and the cost of housing your family in the city, you'd be able to afford housing (and likely better housing) out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Kids don't belong in the suburbs. They belong wherever their parents want to live. With all the heroin problems in the burbs plus increasing amounts of poor people moving in don't say they have less negative influences.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:29 PM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
Oh give me a break. The heroin problem started in the city, where it's still raging. Some of it has migrated out there, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts it still worse in the city.

Kids do belong in the 'burbs. The 'burbs were explicitly built for families with children. Look at the issues of educating kids in the city. Unless you happen to be in the catchment for one of the few good schools in the city, the public school your kid is likely to go to will be mediocre at best, and likely worse than that. If you're a parent that cares, you'll then have to look at private school, which is a terrible idea financially. If you have two or more kids, your talking $40K+ a year in tuition. You can move to a 'burb with a top public school system, and between what you'd save in tuition, and the cost of housing your family in the city, you'd be able to afford housing (and likely better housing) out there.
I don't even come across heroin users in the city and I am all over Manhattan.

According to all recent press it's far worse in the suburbs.

Kids do not belong specifically in the suburbs. Plenty of people graduate from high school in the suburbs and have mediocre futures at best. I know a number people from LI who went to SUNY (and some of them never even graduated). Not that going to SUNY is any impressive achievement, and it certainly locks you out of top jobs as SUNYs are not good schools.

Private school is not a terrible idea if you can AFFORD it. Also there are specialized public schools in the city, as well as charter schools.

In a way either the expense of getting into private school or the hardness of getting into the specialized public schools (or the intense work needed to stay in a top charter school like Success) weeds out the riff raff. Like mediocrity flourish in the suburbs!

Again kids belong wherever their parents want to live.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:30 PM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale View Post
Something tells me they'd take that money and light it on fire somewhere in a school district that only serves the underprivileged, further chasing the middle and working class out of the city.

If it actually improved those children and their future fine. If they would just waste the money that's horrible.
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Old 05-19-2015, 08:28 AM
 
2,336 posts, read 3,323,341 times
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People like to raise families in the suburbs because you often get more bang for your buck. Compare a $6 million home in Scarsdale to a $6 million APARTMENT in Manhattan. You will never have a situation where all people completely give up their desire to have more space with a family. Also consider the schools. I'm not totally sure how there NYC school system works, especially with the high schools, but I understand it's far more complicated than Westchester. Westchester it's simple. Move there, pay taxes and your kids are able to attend the (top rated) school where a high percentage of the kids end up going to an Ivy or top 20 college. There will always be families that want space and educational simplicity for their kids.

Also, I think there is a myth that Westchester is for the mega rich. I've always seen it as a place for the well to do but not the über wealthy. So as someone else pointed out, there aren't many billionaires in the county. All you need to do is look at the incomes for some of the wealthier towns to see that fact.
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Old 05-19-2015, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Bronx
14,780 posts, read 17,397,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
Oh give me a break. The heroin problem started in the city, where it's still raging. Some of it has migrated out there, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts it still worse in the city.

Kids do belong in the 'burbs. The 'burbs were explicitly built for families with children. Look at the issues of educating kids in the city. Unless you happen to be in the catchment for one of the few good schools in the city, the public school your kid is likely to go to will be mediocre at best, and likely worse than that. If you're a parent that cares, you'll then have to look at private school, which is a terrible idea financially. If you have two or more kids, your talking $40K+ a year in tuition. You can move to a 'burb with a top public school system, and between what you'd save in tuition, and the cost of housing your family in the city, you'd be able to afford housing (and likely better housing) out there.
I agree here with this.
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