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Old 06-03-2015, 02:40 PM
 
9,701 posts, read 6,666,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAS View Post
First you tend to stereo type people. You seem to think all people of certain groups are the same. Many of your stereo types are very outdated. You should also know that many 2nd generations are very different from the first.
How am I "stereotyping"?

It's absolutely true that the Asian families that dominate the elite public schools are generally poor and have extremely hardworking parents who often speak little English.

Are you claiming that the Fujianese immigrants crowding into Sunset Park are rich, don't work hard, and speak good English? LOL.

The % free and reduced lunch in the elite schools isn't much different than in the public school district at large. Obviously there are other factors at play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAS View Post
Yes many are connected it are believe it or not. Not in the way that you may think of connected, but in a way that works for them. I work around some. Many Indians and other Asians are educated when they get here, while not having to work in sweat shops, they start out with jobs well beneath where they left off at back in their home countries.
This is utter nonsense. They aren't connected. They don't even speak English. Many can't even speak Chinese!

The Fujianese immigrants who dominate Chinese immigration (and whose kids dominate elite public schools admissions) are usually not even high school educated. They are from one of the poorest provinces in China. Many don't even speak proper Chinese; they only know their local dialect.

They have the same household income as kids in the projects. They are almost 100% free lunch kids. Their families are 90% poor. Their parents both work 7 days a week and endure brutal hours in sweatshops and factories and restaurants. In fact many live in the projects; there are many NYCHA complexes that now have a big population of Chinese. In one generation those kids will all be doctors and lawyers.

This isn't stereotyping; it's the plain truth for anyone who knows this community. Here's a recent article detailing the community.

Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014
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Old 06-03-2015, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Bronx
14,780 posts, read 17,397,072 times
Reputation: 7508
It is also funny that those who are successful, from NYC and came from nowhere were also born in a different time, a different generation, but also a different NYC that was aspirational, less competitive, and not as money, money as it is today but with the same ambition and drive. The NYC of the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s does not resonate with the NYC of today in terms of success. Those who are successful already come from established or connected backgrounds in todays NYC. Those who were born in the projects of the 50s, 60s, 70s are far different than they are now and the projects are a shadow of its former self. I don't even think the projects can not even produce athletes who go off college and become mega millionaires of sport entities like NBA, MLB or NFL. Again we live in a capitalist society and this society is preeminent in our public school system of NYC. Out of a class of 28 elementary kids in kindergarten, how many will drop out, how many will go to jail, how many will become single mothers, how many will go to college and how many will go to Ivy? VS Preptoary private school in Manhattan where 100% of students will go to an IVY league if not Ivy than top 20 college like Stanford, MIT, John Hopkins, Georgetown, DUke etc? Not everyone is going to make it out, unless in order to win is not to play! Even though capitalism is the only system that truly works, it is indeed a very rough system for those who do not have means, but on the flip side those that the top can also fall to the bottom.

Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 06-03-2015 at 03:58 PM..
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Old 06-03-2015, 03:27 PM
DAS
 
2,530 posts, read 5,822,752 times
Reputation: 1086
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
How am I "stereotyping"?

It's absolutely true that the Asian families that dominate the elite public schools are generally poor and have extremely hardworking parents who often speak little English.

Are you claiming that the Fujianese immigrants crowding into Sunset Park are rich, don't work hard, and speak good English? LOL.

The % free and reduced lunch in the elite schools isn't much different than in the public school district at large. Obviously there are other factors at play.

This is utter nonsense. They aren't connected. They don't even speak English. Many can't even speak Chinese!

The Fujianese immigrants who dominate Chinese immigration (and whose kids dominate elite public schools admissions) are usually not even high school educated. They are from one of the poorest provinces in China. Many don't even speak proper Chinese; they only know their local dialect.

They have the same household income as kids in the projects. They are almost 100% free lunch kids. Their families are 90% poor. Their parents both work 7 days a week and endure brutal hours in sweatshops and factories and restaurants. In fact many live in the projects; there are many NYCHA complexes that now have a big population of Chinese. In one generation those kids will all be doctors and lawyers.

This isn't stereotyping; it's the plain truth for anyone who knows this community. Here's a recent article detailing the community.

Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014
I already stated that my using the word "connected" is probably not the same way you are using it. You don't need to speak English to communicate with people that speak your language. There are always people in communities that speak both English and your native language. These people have been here longer and are usually a little wealthier and better educated, and they know others wealthier and more educated than they are, and so on. If people are persistent, they will get to the people that will help them.

Everyone that comes here is aware of the educational opportunities here, and that education is the gateway to success here. They also learn very quickly how to get this for their children. They learn the ropes. How do they learn this? From others that have paved the way before them, and that can speak to them. Just because people are uneducated doesn't mean they are stupid.

You are stereotyping because you are stating that everyone that immigrates from a certain area of China is in the same situation. You are also stating that everyone will live in a certain place, and that everyone will be successful. These are humans that you are referring to. They won't all live the same way, and their futures are not written out for them to turn out the same way. Just like other humans, some will do something else that is not considered typical.

It is obvious that you are trying to show that these immigrants will achieve success in one generation while others that have been here for many generations won't do that. There are so many reasons why this conclusion is not valid. I am not trying to change your believe in this conclusion. I also wish the best for the people you are writing about. I know that success is an individual choice, and no one's success or failure can speak for the entire group that looks similar that person, or originally comes from the same place.

The environment will shape a person's choice. If those around you are all about education, and competing for success then that will totally influence you. But in the end it will be you the individual that has to make the choice and put in the work,
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Old 06-03-2015, 03:31 PM
DAS
 
2,530 posts, read 5,822,752 times
Reputation: 1086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
It is also funny that those who are successful, from NYC and came from nowhere were also born in a different time, a different generation, but also a different NYC that was aspirational, less competitive, and not as money, money as it is today but with the same ambition and drive. The NYC of the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s does not resonate with the NYC of today in terms of success. Those who are successful already come from established or connected backgrounds in todays NYC. Those who were born in the projects of the 50s, 60s, 70s are far different than they are now and the projects are a shadow of its former self. I don't even think the projects can not even produce athletes who go off college and become mega millionaires of sport entities like NBA, MLB or NFL. Again we live in a capitalist society and this society is preeminent in our public school system of NYC. Out of a class of 28 elementary kids in kindergarten, how many will drop out, how many will go to jail, how many will become single mothers, how many will go to college and how many will go to private? VS Preptoary private school in Manhattan where 100% of students will go to an IVY league if not Ivy than top 20 college like Stanford, MIT, John Hopkins, Georgetown, DUke etc?
This is so true. Everyone that goes into professional sports today has to have money to train from their early teens on, in a way that if far more advanced than what is offered in their school team training. If they don't have the money they must so talented and gifted that some coach or someone will invest the time, energy and money into them. In the old days your school team's training was enough.
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Old 06-03-2015, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Bronx
14,780 posts, read 17,397,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAS View Post
This is so true. Everyone that goes into professional sports today has to have money to train from their early teens on, in a way that if far more advanced than what is offered in their school team training. If they don't have the money they must so talented and gifted that some coach or someone will invest the time, energy and money into them. In the old days your school team's training was enough.
I remember some years ago watching American Idol, I think it was Simon Caldwell or one of the judges that said NYC has no talent after they were looking for candidates. When was the last time a man in the White House was from NYC?
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Old 06-03-2015, 04:20 PM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
I remember some years ago watching American Idol, I think it was Simon Caldwell or one of the judges that said NYC has no talent after they were looking for candidates. When was the last time a man in the White House was from NYC?
People from NYC sit on the Ivy League dominated supreme court. There are many New Yorkerd in music, film, and sports. American Idol isvdead and all rhose judges are washed up.

And as others have noted, New Yorj has produced many CEOs. Obama is not from New York but he has AColumbia degree. Columbia is a NY instiutution.

But I think your bitterness leaves you full of excuses. What other New Yorkers do is irrelevant. What you do is important. As Mathjak would say either you succeed or you don't.

I also think therebis talent involved. A talented poor person from the city if they have the opportunity and if the apply themselves will do fine. But an untalented, low iq person won't get anywhere.
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Old 06-03-2015, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Bronx
14,780 posts, read 17,397,072 times
Reputation: 7508
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
People from NYC sit on the Ivy League dominated supreme court. There are many New Yorkerd in music, film, and sports. American Idol isvdead and all rhose judges are washed up.

And as others have noted, New Yorj has produced many CEOs. Obama is not from New York but he has AColumbia degree. Columbia is a NY instiutution.

But I think your bitterness leaves you full of excuses. What other New Yorkers do is irrelevant. What you do is important. As Mathjak would say either you succeed or you don't.

I also think therebis talent involved. A talented poor person from the city if they have the opportunity and if the apply themselves will do fine. But an untalented, low iq person won't get anywhere.
Did you read my previous post? I don't think so. We live in a capitalist society. Not everyone who comes from a low income family is going to make it to the top. Even if one strives hard they can end up in the middle or fail in general. That is how the dice is rolled. Also judges were born in a different era of NYC with Catholic and Jewish morals in mind.

Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 06-03-2015 at 04:32 PM..
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Old 06-03-2015, 04:32 PM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
Reputation: 8529
I feel that people on this thread project. NYC has 8 million people. So of those born and raised here, due to tharmt volume there would be vast differences in their educational backgrounds and careers. The people claiming everyone not born in the city is poorly educated are poorky educated themselves. So they project their situation onto everyone else. Its easier to do that than take responsibility for themselves. I don't deny those born into money have it much easier. However nothing will happen if you present yourself as a bitter person with endless excuses.
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Old 06-03-2015, 04:39 PM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
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To make it out of the projects you don't necessarily have to go Ivy League or A list celebrity. You could gi to CUNYband become a public school teacher or other civil servant. Then you could buy a housenor co op in the outer boroughs. Especially if you have the stability to get married and remain in a stable relationship.
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Old 06-03-2015, 04:41 PM
 
3,700 posts, read 2,485,824 times
Reputation: 2614
Actually the easiest way out of the projects is to not **** any out while you're currently living in them. That sadly falls on deaf ears to too many.
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