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Old 10-03-2015, 01:55 PM
 
23,265 posts, read 16,104,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
Education is a cultural trait. Cultural trait is not synonymous with ethnic or racial trait.


Wanting your children to do better is not the same thing as doing everything in your power to make that happen. Are there historic and socioeconomic reasons that make it very difficult for black parents in the hood from providing a great education for their children? Of course. It must be immeasurably tough raising your kids in the hood where there are no positive role models in terms of education for kids.

A parent in the hood needs to give everything they have and put their children's education first. Do most do that? I doubt that.

I'm Jewish and education is just a cultural part of being Jewish. Education is pushed just for the sake of it sometimes. My family was from the Soviet Union and even though higher education didn't lead to wealth or a higher standard of living in the Soviet Union, Jewish families still pushed it on their kids.

I'm getting my masters. My brother, aunt, and fiancee also have a masters degree. It's just part of the culture.
I personally know mobster Jewish people and ghetto Jewish people right here in NYC, and other subgroups of Jewish people who quite clearly do not value education. The ones in organized crime tend to hide behind owning stores, restaurants, or bars (have to explain where the money comes from to the government).

So clearly being Jewish does not mean you speak for or represent all Jewish people. Nobody can do that for a race or a religion.

Back to the hood, so now you speak for and make representations for what people in the hood do and what kinds of resources they have? Wow!

Contrary to popular belief many people in the hood do work. Some even have good enough jobs to buy houses or co-ops in the hood. Some even make enough money to send their kids to religious private schools in the hood. And yes a number of them do go to college.

Go to ANY CUNY campuses and you'll see large numbers of minority kids who are from hoods studying to get their degrees.

Is this everyone from the hood? By all means no. But there definitely is social mobility from the hood and people do move up and out. And over the years it isn't a rare thing to happen. Many famous people from Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor were born in hoods.
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Old 10-03-2015, 01:59 PM
 
2,301 posts, read 1,119,547 times
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wah wah wah they should open up a private school in the area and charge $20,000 a year. people from the projects can't afford that.
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Old 10-03-2015, 02:06 PM
 
23,265 posts, read 16,104,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louie0406 View Post
Never said it represents ALL blacks living in the hood in the 21st century, but it IS an an issue nonetheless.

I'm also sure that many blacks want their children to move up the ladder and do better in life. Unfortunately for many of these children, they've been dealt a bad hand from birth. Its truly sad.


Like I previously stated, I grew up in/arounds the projects from childhood till my late 20's. I knew I wanted better and worked towards it. Many of my friends and people I grew up with chose different paths and till this day are still on the same block, doing the same things, talking about the same nonsense! I left that neighborhood 8yrs ago and still come around from time to time. I'll get the usual.."Yo whats up? You look like you're doing good player!" I'll also get the "oh look who it is. This dude thinks he too good for us. Go back to your white neighborhood". Of course they say that last comment in a joking manner but I know deep down inside that's how they truly feel.

Many people (especially those from the "hood") often make bad choices in life due to poverty and frustration. It's a fact though that many of these same people hate to see their peers succeed and progress in life while they remain stagnant. Yes there are some good people who like to see someone make it out the "hood" and make something of themselves. There's also many more who dont! That's a fact!
Demonstrate it is an issue or that it has any effect on anyone.

Are you Black yourself or something else?

Your comments seem to come across as from something out an outside perspective.

And contrary to the stereotypes presented here in Black neighborhoods you do have people with JOBS (most do work to some degree even if they don't get paid well) and not only that you do have MIDDLE class Blacks who own homes and cars and all. (many may stay in the Black neighborhood because real estate prices are CHEAPER, plus they may be comfortable living there).
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:36 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,597 posts, read 1,281,406 times
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Default From life experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
I'm Black and no one has ever ridiculed me for speaking proper English in the hood and I am a grad student. So where are you getting this ridiculous claim from?

It is not a ridiculous claim. It is from life experience.

If you have never been ridiculed for speaking proper English in the hood or being a grad student it must be because they found something else even more distasteful about you that your speaking proper didn't even register with them.


I too grew up in the hood but knew that I could do better than that and wanted more for myself (and my posterity were I to have any). I have a post-graduate degree, have worked as a SW in NYC for 5 years in the past, and still have a connection with some family and friends in the hood and yes, the poster louie is right on point on everything he has said. Relative to being ridiculed, yes they ridicule family and friends who speak proper English instead of slang and excessive profanity. They always do it jokingly and humorously but they still do it.
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:45 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,597 posts, read 1,281,406 times
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Default Puh-leeze

Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Most of the housing stock in Harlem and Bedstuy is privately owned and many have already been priced out and displaced. For NYCHA itself due to funding cuts rents have INCREASED and the city is now stepping up on it's collection.

I don't know anyone who would want their kids to live that lifestyle if they could avoid it and I am INCLUDING people with criminal records.
Please! I've crossed paths of some who literally don't care! I know of others who willingly pass on their lifestyle to their children as they do not teach their children anything of substance to replace it. If they didn't want their kids living that lifestyle, the kids wouldn't. It's just that simple.

It appears to me that you're taking values of middle class Blacks and applying them to hoods in NYC or you're being idealist just for the sake of argument.

Are there some decent people in NYCHA? Most definitely!! However, they keep themselves and their children inside away from the riff-raff hanging outside. These type of Blacks readily admit they keep to themselves because there is a sizable number of neighbors who have no goals in life nor plans to better themselves. Those types do nothing but create strife, chaos, criminal activity, and live for drama.
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:47 PM
 
23,265 posts, read 16,104,540 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
It is not a ridiculous claim. It is from life experience.

If you have never been ridiculed for speaking proper English in the hood or being a grad student it must be because they found something else even more distasteful about you that your speaking proper didn't even register with them.


I too grew up in the hood but knew that I could do better than that and wanted more for myself (and my posterity were I to have any). I have a post-graduate degree, have worked as a SW in NYC for 5 years in the past, and still have a connection with some family and friends in the hood and yes, the poster louie is right on point on everything he has said. Relative to being ridiculed, yes they ridicule family and friends who speak proper English instead of slang and excessive profanity. They always do it jokingly and humorously but they still do it.
The ones I knew were impressed that I've done what I've done and wished me the best.

Different people can have very different experiences and personal experiences do not indicate how widespread something is.

In fact hood people at times have asked me to help them fill out forms they had difficulty with or help for other things. At times I became annoyed because I didn't want to take on that much responsiblity. I have lived in Upper Manhattan for quite some time now and I do not hear people making fun of people for speaking proper English.

But it really wouldn't matter. I have a contemptuous side of me (obvious) and I love Bloomberg's New York legacy of aggressive gentrification. So really what poor people think is entirely irrelevant to me. NYC is all about the $$$$$$$$$ and only a fool is concerned about what some idiot may say about their speech.
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Old 10-03-2015, 05:13 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,886 posts, read 7,839,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
Please! I've crossed paths of some who literally don't care! I know of others who willingly pass on their lifestyle to their children as they do not teach their children anything of substance to replace it. If they didn't want their kids living that lifestyle, the kids wouldn't. It's just that simple.
Exactly. I am an educator and know this from experience.
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Old 10-03-2015, 05:15 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,597 posts, read 1,281,406 times
Reputation: 2498
Default Different strokes for different folks

Quote:
Originally Posted by overdose View Post
Where do you people come from?..Yes there are people who hate those who are more successful than themselves, but I will never accept that this is a unique black problem, or even especially a black problem.
I wonder where are you people from? A middle-class neighborhood of McMansions in Atlanta?? Have you ever been to a hood other than driving through it because statements like yours and NYWriterDude (although I chalk his up to being in denial) defy all logic and experience of what the hood is really like. You couldn't be talking about Black hoods in NYC or even in NJ.

I admit it and ACCEPT it -- it is especially a BLACK problem as many Blacks are still programmed from our horrible historical experience which bred the "crabs in the barrel mentality". That is what kept them alive back then -- to keep everybody around you down so as not to upset the racial hierarchy. To be progressive, ambitious, or too bright intellectually was very threatening to the majority and often ended badly for that person or their family members. Homes, businesses, or their person could be firebombed, shot, lynched, etc and there was no recourse nor government judicial system in place to protect Black citizens from this. (Rosewood, FL and Black Walls Street Tulsa OK are more popular examples but there were many more not as well documented).

We live in a different era (2015) but unfortunately, many Blacks are still not free from this mentality of earlier generations. They continue holding on to a mentality that holds them back as oppose to propelling them forward.

Anti-education (cutting up and being a jokester in class, a discipline problem instead of applying themselves, coming to class prepared with their book, paper, pencil, doing the homework, etc.), anti-intellectualism (intellectual pursuits are considered boring), numerous bad life decisions and choices (having children OOW, choosing quick-money criminal activity over learning a legal skill/trade, always trying to get over or short-cut their way through life, looking for the easiest route, being stubborn and resistant to admitting their faults and short-comings, not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to succeed in the society in which they live).
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Old 10-03-2015, 05:32 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,597 posts, read 1,281,406 times
Reputation: 2498
Default Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
Exactly. I am an educator and know this from experience.
Thank you! Teachers are the first people who turned my coat to this. Years ago, I was idealistic and thought that everyone on the outside was just being mean, racist even towards Black children. I worked with youth in a church structured environment of children from the hood as well as middle-class homes. There was always a difference in the behavior of the hood children because they picked up the accepted behavior of their environment.

Children are honest like that. They don't know to put on a facade at that age. They were genuinely acting out what they say and heard at home and it was not nice or respectful. Simultaneously, professionally I worked as a social worker based in NYC but my job involved me traveling to all the boroughs, Westchester county, LI, and NJ. I know full grown Black people, men and women, who avoid getting on the subway at the time that high school lets out because they don't want to deal with the horrible behavior of Black teens on the trains (ghetto behavior). Is that behavior reflective of students to whom education is a priority? Heck no!

I was in NYC public schools all the times. I worked closely not only with the students but teachers, counselor, and even staff in the office - the majority of whom are Black. They all say the SAME thing! They're on the front lines and know of what they speak. One counselor in a public school in Brooklyn told me "when the student is problematic and the parent comes up to the school (to confront the teacher more so than to check on how their student is progressing) then you SEE why the child acts they way he/she does!"
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Old 10-03-2015, 05:57 PM
 
23,265 posts, read 16,104,540 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
Please! I've crossed paths of some who literally don't care! I know of others who willingly pass on their lifestyle to their children as they do not teach their children anything of substance to replace it. If they didn't want their kids living that lifestyle, the kids wouldn't. It's just that simple.

It appears to me that you're taking values of middle class Blacks and applying them to hoods in NYC or you're being idealist just for the sake of argument.

Are there some decent people in NYCHA? Most definitely!! However, they keep themselves and their children inside away from the riff-raff hanging outside. These type of Blacks readily admit they keep to themselves because there is a sizable number of neighbors who have no goals in life nor plans to better themselves. Those types do nothing but create strife, chaos, criminal activity, and live for drama.
I have known plenty of criminals who WOULD not want their kids to end up where they are.

That doesn't mean that all of these kids are going to be upstanding citizens of course, but no parent would want to see their kid grow up to spend years in jail, get shot, die of a terrible diseases, etc.

No one has deliberately raised their children to be that way. No parent has said I want to raise a criminal that has a good chance of getting killed. They may have failed as parents and the kids grew up with major issues, etc.

I also think you have lots of self hatred going on towards poor Blacks in the hoods. The reason why you have these hoods is because until the 70s Blacks were banned from living in many places in NYC. Housing and job discrimination were rampant no matter how well you behaved or how you talked. And as terrible as police brutality is now, it is NOTHING new.

As a marginalized population these Black areas were also underdeserved on services like mental health and relationships with the educational system was often strained. Blacks are more likely to be kicked out or otherwise severely punished in the k-12 system. As for drugs? Please I've said on other forums the times when I did drugs like cocaine in lower Manhattan with wealthy white kids there was never any problem with the police. Heaven forbid someone in a poor neighborhood even be suspected of doing drugs.

Go back far enough and there were almost no Black educators in NYC or social workers as Blacks were not allowed in those jobs in significant numbers until after the civil rights legislation?
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