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Old 10-06-2015, 09:24 PM
 
1,957 posts, read 1,047,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
She's so nice, she used "raucous adolescents".

Had I posted I would have said "when Black ghetto teens get on". Occasionally a group of Puerto Ricans will act that way too but the Black ghetto crowd are always ON - they never turn off. It's been them when I've had to look up from reading a book or paper because the profanity, sexualized talk, and aggressive behavior towards each other was so bad that I immediately looked up to see who was causing such a raucous: play-fighting on crowded trains, pushing and shoving one another on other people in crowded trains, loudly yell-talking, etc.

...well, actually I could tell by their voices, slang, and bad diction.

And before someone responds with their graduate degree in one hand and book on "Teaching Hood Children To Speak Proper" in the other, let me say that this has been my experience and surprisingly (not to me) many other's peoples' experience who take public transportation in NYC.

I guess having been a Social worker has pushed me beyond the beyonds. I know the ghetto behavior so well so that I can predict with 99% accuracy what the behavior will be and how soon it will start. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 and GO...and they're off to the races!
So I guess white people or other races dont use slang or speak with bad diction..OK. I guess they don't engage in explicit sexualized talk either...ok. But someone who uses a certain vernacular quite liberally is dumb to you. I hear loud white people on public transportation all the time...I hear loud people talking in languages other than English.

What is "proper" to you? Oh please do explain. What is "speaking proper" to you? Care to explain?

Why do you demonize speaking slang so much? In New York City do you honestly and truly think that no one uses slang?

When people other than the "ghetto people" you despise so much are loud, does it offend you?

Judging an entire group by the behaviors of a small few is why prejudice continues to perpetuate in this society.
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Old 10-06-2015, 09:25 PM
 
1,957 posts, read 1,047,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
It if looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quack likes a duck, it's a duck. Living in the ghetto as a teen is not the problem - as many of us have done that. Acting a fool and behaving like you're demonized is a problem. It all goes back to the duck scenario.
You are the duck.
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Old 10-06-2015, 09:31 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,595 posts, read 1,278,627 times
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Default Duh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
There was criticism coming from that person about so called progressive posters who claim or imply that they and their friends try to leave the subway car that they are in just because kids from a poor background get on a subway car. That attitude is racist and the very definition of social marginalization.

Other posters who have ridden the subway have reported no problem with those kids and reported that the subway passengers that they saw had no problems with those kids. Unless someone has directly threatened someone, they have no reason to behave like this.
If the teens' behavior wasn't off the chain, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Don't try to twist what I said by stating that people moved off the train just because kids from "a poor background got on". Just stop it! Heck with the high cost of living in NYC, they basically would be running from car to car the whole time if they got off whenever someone poor got on. The issue is not being poor, the issue is BEHAVIOR. Being Black and poor is no longer an excuse for exhibiting bad behavior "just because". We are all human and there is a standard of decent behavior that is expected and should be maintained by ALL citizens.

Heck I look at pics, books, magazines, and films and most Blacks were poor in 1960 and did not have the numbers of advanced degrees that we have today yet carried themselves with dignity and self-respect. Your parent(s) better not find out that you were acting a fool in public and bringing disgrace to Black people in general, yourself and your family.

Now, this generation has been encouraged or enabled to act a fool because they will have all kinds of excuses made for them: all long as Wall street execs don't get off the train amidst your loud cursing and yelling, you're good! Instead of teaching the teens, do you see Wall street execs ' youth acting like you in public? Ok, then that means you have a LOT of work today unless you plan on becoming an adult that is not much further ahead than where you are now.
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Old 10-06-2015, 09:48 PM
 
1,957 posts, read 1,047,951 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
If the teens' behavior wasn't off the chain, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Don't try to twist what I said by stating that people moved off the train just because kids from "a poor background got on". Just stop it! Heck with the high cost of living in NYC, they basically would be running from car to car the whole time if they got off whenever someone poor got on. The issue is not being poor, the issue is BEHAVIOR. Being Black and poor is no longer an excuse for exhibiting bad behavior "just because". We are all human and there is a standard of decent behavior that is expected and should be maintained by ALL citizens.

Heck I look at pics, books, magazines, and films and most Blacks were poor in 1960 and did not have the numbers of advanced degrees that we have today yet carried themselves with dignity and self-respect. Your parent(s) better not find out that you were acting a fool in public and bringing disgrace to Black people in general, yourself and your family.

Now, this generation has been encouraged or enabled to act a fool because they will have all kinds of excuses made for them: all long as Wall street execs don't get off the train amidst your loud cursing and yelling, you're good! Instead of teaching the teens, do you see Wall street execs ' youth acting like you in public? Ok, then that means you have a LOT of work today unless you plan on becoming an adult that is not much further ahead than where you are now.
This just proves that negative stereotypes are tilted towards a certain group.

I've seen the loud "ghetto" types that you so despise, but what about the behavior of people who aren't part of this group. You certainly won't view the latter with the same type of scrutiny that you do for the ghetto types that you hate.

I see loud, drunk, and even drugged people on trains all the time especially during late hours (and they aren't black). I've seen fights between drugged hipster young adults but yet I hear no comments being made on their behavior, sexual choices, what type of households they were raised in, or where thier parents are.

Are you the child of a Wall St. exec? Do you know how their children act or what they engage in? Please explain.
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Old 10-06-2015, 10:11 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,595 posts, read 1,278,627 times
Reputation: 2488
Default Not on public transportation in NYC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post
So I guess white people or other races dont use slang or speak with bad diction..OK. I guess they don't engage in explicit sexualized talk either...ok. But someone who uses a certain vernacular quite liberally is dumb to you. I hear loud white people on public transportation all the time...I hear loud people talking in languages other than English.

What is "proper" to you? Oh please do explain. What is "speaking proper" to you? Care to explain?

Why do you demonize speaking slang so much? In New York City do you honestly and truly think that no one uses slang?

When people other than the "ghetto people" you despise so much are loud, does it offend you?

Judging an entire group by the behaviors of a small few is why prejudice continues to perpetuate in this society.
If they got on and act like someone with some sense, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If I saw any other group of teens loudly cursing, yell-talking, scream laughing, and talking sexually explicit, I would have NO problem identifying the culprits. I don't have a problem saying what I believe because I believe that wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing in and right is right even if no one is doing it.

Let's stick to my point, it's abhorrent BEHAVIOR that is the problem. Bad diction and slang are just accessories. My problem is with the BEHAVIOR. The only people being judged are the ones who act like this - not all Black teens, but "ghetto" Black teens. Ghetto describes the behavior. I'm sure you already know that but want to try to justify their behavior simply because they're Black. That is the problem! This low class behavior has been justified and protected too long in the hood. We're the only people I know of that waste so much of our energy supporting and going to bat for criminals, the lazy, and the stupid. It backfires it every time!

New generations coming up think that is the norm of how they should act because hey they grew up seeing people act like fools around them and nary an eye was batted by parents, loved ones, or friends. Consequently, instead of decreasing bad behavior, it's increases because monkey see, monkey do.

If you've experienced White teens acting this way on the train or bus, feel free to share your story.
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Old 10-07-2015, 12:17 AM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,444,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nograviti View Post
I. Likewise a lot of British Blacks dont go to America for the wonderful race relations, ..

1. If I were you I wouldn't be so boastful about these African OILigarchs given that you know most likely the wealth was ill gotten. Nigeria one of the world's poorer nations (as measured by GDP per capita and HDI) despite this massive concentration of wealth.

2. Blacks are NOT well positioned in either the USA or the UK and one only need to see how race is a predictor for economic success (or lack of it) in both societies. What the USA offers is better opportunity for those who can survive in a highly competitive society, and this is why Black Brits are in the USA in large numbers, while very few American blacks move to live permanently in the UK. You will note that it is the most educated and driven blacks. Why is this if the USA is so terrible, when compared to the UK?
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Old 10-07-2015, 12:19 AM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,444,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
do.

If you've experienced White teens acting this way on the train or bus, feel free to share your story.

I suggest that you visit any area where there are frat houses or jocks, and the thing is that these whites tend to come from affluent families, so shouldn't have any excuse. Alcoholic fueled violence is fairly prevalent among young white males, so please cut out your nonsense.
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Old 10-07-2015, 12:20 AM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,444,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx View Post

Are you the child of a Wall St. exec? Do you know how their children act or what they engage in? Please explain.

There were the infamous preppies who used to get drunk and misbehave in Central Park. In fact a rape became fodder for TV movies.
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Old 10-07-2015, 12:43 AM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,444,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
But so do we, and they have a very different experience.
They themselves feel that things are far worse here.
Two were in law school.

Bet you their comments didn't revolve around better career opportunities, but instead focused on higher access to whites. This is very important to them. It is less important to blacks in the USA. Of all the complaints one hears, not having a white girl friend isn't one of them.

The reality is that I really don't see how this greater integration has helped British blacks. The considerably LESS integrated Indians are beating them by a mile, even the Nigerians, who are the most educated people in the UK.

If career opportunities for educated blacks were better in the UK many Caribbean/African immigrants, who have relatives in the UK, would be headed there. Instead the movement is towards NYC, FL and other parts of the USA.

Some stats. Blacks in the UK are 2.7% of the population, and account for 13.7% of the prisoners. In the USA blacks are 13% and account for 39% of the prisoners. There is a larger white urban underclass in the UK, where much crime is concentrated and yet blacks in the UK are MORE over represented in the prison population than it is in the USA.

And of course the black population in the USA includes a large segment mired in pathologies arising from the 350 years of slavery/Jim Crow, where pathologies have become a "culture".

So given this one would think that US blacks would be MORE over represented in prisons than those in the UK. Not so!

Note that black immigrants to the UK in the 40s to 60s went there to work. Their offspring ended up with similar issues as we can see in the USA.

So blacks in the UK better off. Hardly!

Last edited by caribny; 10-07-2015 at 01:32 AM..
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Old 10-07-2015, 04:52 AM
 
Location: London, NYC & LA
842 posts, read 615,780 times
Reputation: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
If they got on and act like someone with some sense, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If I saw any other group of teens loudly cursing, yell-talking, scream laughing, and talking sexually explicit, I would have NO problem identifying the culprits. I don't have a problem saying what I believe because I believe that wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing in and right is right even if no one is doing it.

Let's stick to my point, it's abhorrent BEHAVIOR that is the problem. Bad diction and slang are just accessories. My problem is with the BEHAVIOR. The only people being judged are the ones who act like this - not all Black teens, but "ghetto" Black teens. Ghetto describes the behavior. I'm sure you already know that but want to try to justify their behavior simply because they're Black. That is the problem! This low class behavior has been justified and protected too long in the hood. We're the only people I know of that waste so much of our energy supporting and going to bat for criminals, the lazy, and the stupid. It backfires it every time!

New generations coming up think that is the norm of how they should act because hey they grew up seeing people act like fools around them and nary an eye was batted by parents, loved ones, or friends. Consequently, instead of decreasing bad behavior, it's increases because monkey see, monkey do.

If you've experienced White teens acting this way on the train or bus, feel free to share your story.
While I understand what you are saying, I cannot go down the same route as yourself and condemn them. As I tried to tease out with another poster, that class of so called 'ghetto' people were created. They are a product of a discriminatory system and America has only itself to blame.

Also as another suggested the reactions to black people are different to Caucasians. I remember experiencing this problem, when my son was crying in a store. People were tutting and passively aggressively suggesting that I should have done more to quieten down my son. At the same child, another Caucasian child was crying in the same fashion and no one said a word to the flaxen haired mother. The discrepancy was very obvious to me, so I ignored it and carried on as usual. Were I a so called 'ghetto' father with already internalised feelings of inadequacy, I might have tried harder to make my son be quiet (which would probably have been an overreaction).

People need to understand that they have been primed to see behaviour from different groups in completely different ways. This is societal and in America this is supported by bias in the media and on television. If I say 'who is loud?' and show people a card with an image of a group of black people on it and another with a group of white people on it, people automatically associate loudness with the image of black people. Tests on this are consistent from blacks to whites..

Linked to this is another issue, FEAR. One of the posters genuinely appears to fear working class black people. The simple assertion I would make is, how can you succeed as a people if you are afraid of someone who looks like you? My uncle explained this to me from a young age and believed that the failure of African Americans is because they have been taught to fear each other. Posh as I am, I have rolled through the roughest parts of the US without fear. Why because I have shown respect and genuine love for the people there. In fact some even said "we appreciate you coming down here and seeing our neighbourhood, as we are not animals". Whenever I hear such sentiments I am shocked that a fellow human will accept the mere suggestion from another group that they are animals. If you say that 'ghetto' people are 'barbarians, idiots etc' then by extension so are you, as you are Black as well. I will not attempt to perform some mental gymnastics to justify such a foolish position.

Finally I bring the UK and other places into my discussion for comparison. The language used here to describe working class blacks is no different to what you would hear in Eastern Europe when discussing the Roma. A group that interestingly forms a distinct racial underclass throughout Eastern and Central Europe. They originate from India, but unlike the Indian Diapora they are not successful at all. There is nothing instrincally black about falling into a socio-economic trap of poverty. It is by a mix of design (discriminatory policy) and cultural tendencies which themselves are often a byproduct of policy that results in certain groups consistently falling between the cracks. Hence change must also come from the top down, before the situation for working class blacks will ever change.

As for the other poster. how many posts can you make largely ranting about the UK? It is clear to me you have an axe to grind. I am not biased like yourself as I actually like the US in the main, but I am saddened by its poverty and the fact that it disproportionately affects black people. Racial integration means more than just your crude silly explanation of sexual access, as it means the classes are not divided. This is why poor black people are better off in the UK than in the US. This means that the debate about poverty in the UK is linked to class and not race, which is far better in my book. We can argue back and forth, but I sense emotion rather than logic (due to your ill treatment in the 70s) forms the basis for your arguments. Also other posters have corroborated their families have reported the same benign racial climate in the UK in places like London when compared to the US, so we can't all be wrong.

Sorry but I have seen you argue in other threads with British Caucasians with black partners dismissing their familes, Caucasian women who cherish racial integration in the UK and UK Caribbean Black women who told you were flat out wrong, yet you still drone on? Please take a step back and reflect on your opinions..


Racism in London...England at large

Last edited by nograviti; 10-07-2015 at 05:14 AM..
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