U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-10-2015, 10:08 PM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,436,260 times
Reputation: 3448

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Yet drunken white college bros don't get the sane negative treatment as boisterous black ghettos kids from people on this thread. You and others mainly like to bash ghetto/poor/Black kids.

Drunken white college bros can get away with a lot more. And yes they can be violent too. I've seen bar fights or street fights.

Yet according to people on this forum all white people are always precious little snowflakes while Black=evil, bad, violent.

What is interesting is that drunk white college kids come from upper middle class backgrounds, and should know better. The opportunities available to them are more obvious, so shouldn't engage in oppositional behavior, so what's the excuse?

We are now hearing about rampant sex abuse on campuses, and how some of those guilty are actually "protected"!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-10-2015, 10:16 PM
 
205 posts, read 159,937 times
Reputation: 179
I dont hear about White College "Bros" killing each other, they may fight yes, but they dont kill each other, and surely not on a daily basis. Please.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2015, 10:22 PM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,436,260 times
Reputation: 3448
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
[

I'm British - at least I was - I lived there for the first 25 yrs of my life. Racism in the UK is so awful - becuase it is all subtly done, wink and nod,


The US is the lightning rod for all these discussions because - it is most open in the US. And that's fine. But it leads to a smugness in countries like the UK which smugness is not qualified by the facts.

.

And this is the problem. Now I understand what is happening in the UK as I have relatives there. We have a much larger black professional class, and so can openly advocate for, and demand inclusion. In the UK they cannot do so. In fact some of the biggest apologists are the blacks themselves, as they really do need to accept by whites, and cannot afford to agitate them.

In the UK as in the USA if one is black one is more likely to be poor, and more likely to be harassed by the police. Any data, which compares the Caribbean populations of the UK with those of the USA will indicate that the ones in the UK are worse off. This despite the fact that the vast majority were either born there, or arrived as kids. Whereas in the USA statistics on Caribbean populations are confined to the immigrant generation, as the US born people of Caribbean descent are classified as black American.


The favorite occupation of many British is US bashing, and we see this from the UK poster here. They have the SAME problems as we do, aside from the fact that, having a more comprehensive social safety network, there will be less of the extremes of poverty. But then one can see a culture of dependency much more developed among Caribbean populations in the UK, than among those in the USA, who are in the main hostile to government dependency.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2015, 10:25 PM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,436,260 times
Reputation: 3448
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSopp77 View Post
I dont hear about White College "Bros" killing each other, they may fight yes, but they dont kill each other, and surely not on a daily basis. Please.

Can you describe rampant violence among the black upper middle class, because these are the equivalent to the white drunken college kids?

In fact how often does one see drunk upper middle class blacks?

I will leave aside the increasing epidemic if mass killings, and as you love to stigmatize an ENTIRE race, based on how a segment behave, just think about how this behavior makes young white men look!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2015, 10:27 PM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,436,260 times
Reputation: 3448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
After I posted that I realized - it likely has a lot to do with privilege, therefore not at all a "fair" point of view.
Most people with money and social connections are "better off," race often (but not always) notwithstanding. I should certainly be smart enough to understand that we should not look at this group to identify a norm.

Wealthy blacks have no problems in either the USA or the UK.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2015, 10:44 PM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,436,260 times
Reputation: 3448
[quote=nograviti;41472925]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post

Hmm just checked the source you cited and the low income stats also show figures for 30% for

Indians and Caribbeans

Thats not far off the White figure of 20%, which includes European Immigrants. Those figures are more indicative of the fact that the figures for Black Africans also includes newly arrived immigrant groups like Somalis.



By contrast all indicators for African Americans against the white population in the US show HUGE disparities

The poverty figures for Caribbeans in the US are not the same as Indians in the US!!

..

Why don't you compare like with like. Caribbean blacks in the UK with those in the USA. Same people. Same culture. Same heritage. Only difference is that those in the UK are mainly either UK born, or UK raised, and so have had ample time to acquire the credentials and hard and soft skills to compete in the UK.


You also know full well that the Caribbean population in the UK is NOT an immigrant population, but consists of people, the MAJORITY of whom, received their education in the UK, and have spent virtually all of their adult life there. The Caribbean born population in the UK is DECLINING, as people prefer to migrate to the USA and to Canada.

Immigrants from the English speaking Caribbean have poverty rates of around 15%, that is 50% less than in the UK. This is despite the fact that over 90% arrived in the USA AFTER 1970 when the vast MAJORITY of Caribbean British arrived BEFORE then, and in fact 60% of the Caribbean identified UK population was BORN in the UK.

In addition 77% of immigrants (18-64) from the English speaking Caribbean are in the labor force, vs. only 67% in the UK.

So given all of this, how can you argue that Caribbean blacks in the USA are worse off than those in the UK?

If one wants to compare like with like compare African Americans with the Roma, both groups having suffered extreme abuse and exclusion over many generations, the result being the development of self destructive pathologies within segments. This will be NO COMPARISON as African Americans will clearly be better off.

You CANNOT compare a group with under went the extreme of Jim Crow (African Americans and South African blacks) with groups which didn't (West Africans and West Indians). In order to compare the opportunities offered in the USA vs. the UK then you must compare the populations which exist in both. I do not cite Africans, because the UK has large numbers of Somalis, who clearly are a different population.


BTW the "FEAR" of poor blacks exists in the UK as well, so please STOP IT! Tony Blair ranted about the self destructive Afro Caribbean culture in the UK, when A FEW gun incidents occurred. Yes the PRIME MINISTER stigmatizing an ENTIRE community, because of the acts of a SMALL segment of it! Sadly he got away with it........yes because black population in the UK is too small and weak to do anything about it. Many of those over 50 remember the days when the English told them (even those born in the UK) to go home, and that factor is always at the back of their minds.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2015, 11:11 PM
 
205 posts, read 159,937 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Can you describe rampant violence among the black upper middle class, because these are the equivalent to the white drunken college kids?

In fact how often does one see drunk upper middle class blacks?

I will leave aside the increasing epidemic if mass killings, and as you love to stigmatize an ENTIRE race, based on how a segment behave, just think about how this behavior makes young white men look!
So all White "Bro's" are upper middle class huh? You must be the racist? lol. Because a White person is in college they are upper middle class? Increasing epidemic of mass killings?? lol lol, If 51% person of mass killings are done by white men which are less than 30% of the overall population its "a white man crime", and I dont even need to get into the rest... Have you ever been to a poor white neighborhood? Compare it to "average" poor neighborhood in terms of crime... It must be the white privilege...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2015, 12:11 AM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
Reputation: 8529
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
And this is the problem. Now I understand what is happening in the UK as I have relatives there. We have a much larger black professional class, and so can openly advocate for, and demand inclusion. In the UK they cannot do so. In fact some of the biggest apologists are the blacks themselves, as they really do need to accept by whites, and cannot afford to agitate them.

In the UK as in the USA if one is black one is more likely to be poor, and more likely to be harassed by the police. Any data, which compares the Caribbean populations of the UK with those of the USA will indicate that the ones in the UK are worse off. This despite the fact that the vast majority were either born there, or arrived as kids. Whereas in the USA statistics on Caribbean populations are confined to the immigrant generation, as the US born people of Caribbean descent are classified as black American.


The favorite occupation of many British is US bashing, and we see this from the UK poster here. They have the SAME problems as we do, aside from the fact that, having a more comprehensive social safety network, there will be less of the extremes of poverty. But then one can see a culture of dependency much more developed among Caribbean populations in the UK, than among those in the USA, who are in the main hostile to government dependency.
You actually can compare Caribbean immigrants in the US to African Americans.

Post Jim Crow and in Northern city's blacks did not get government subsidized mortgages, and insurance companies were often quite hostile to Blacks.

In short Blacks didn't have the same amount access to money as whites. As a result according to people like Rothstein the average Black household wealth is 5% that of whites, while Black income is 60% that of whites.

You say Caribbean immigrants look down on government programs. Yet whites used those programs to move up socioecomically. Blacks were pushed in the projects, but whites used the GI bill to go to college, attended CUNY in great numbers in the past (becoming professionals and with the option of sending their kids to wherever), became major property owners, etc. Clearly banks were not enthusiastic about doing major business with Caribbean merchants as it's not like they were able to expand into real estate like various white ethnicities.

Sadly in real estate management or landlords I have yet to come across a Black person of ANY ethnicity.

How many significant black people can you name in the tech sector?

It takes a substantial amount of money to move up in the US (access to credit, the right government financing, or family money). Or otherwise it simply will not happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2015, 12:26 AM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,436,260 times
Reputation: 3448
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSopp77 View Post
So all White "Bro's" are upper middle class huh?e...

Not all of them are, but the ones who misbehave often are, because Daddy can make a quick call, and all will be forgiven.

A poor white will be treated only moderately better than a black, so they know better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2015, 12:27 AM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
Reputation: 8529
Now if one's parents are wealthy immigrants, you have a good life ahead of you in the US.

But poor immigrants in general cannot compete with lower middle class whites who are established here, know the system here, are more likely to be property owners, etc.

I think CaribNY you focus too much on middle class to upper middle class Blacks, and you ignore the substantial barriers that poor immigrant Blacks and poor Native Blacks have.

In education we have to go over these things a lot.

The best teachers often avoid teaching in poor Black neighborhoods for some obvious reasons.

You also refuse to acknowledge many immigrant Blacks do not speak English. I teach ESL, and many of my students are Blacks from French speaking African nations or Black Hispanics (some are so Black I could not distinguish them from my African students).

Don't come up with ridiculous contrived reasons why Africans (including Somalis) or Black (not mixed, BLACK) Hispanics don't count. When you can't tell the difference between a Cuban and a Senegalese because the Cuban is that color, that person is simply Black. Harlem has many such literally BLACK Hispanics (not speaking of light skinned mixed race people).

My ESL students are learning English because with their current language skills they cannot get good jobs or go to college here.

Obviously Anglo Caribbean students already know ESL, but they live in neighborhoods were many teachers refuse to go.

I am currently teaching as a grad student, but once I am finished with grad school if I want to I too have the option of refusing to teach in Black neighborhoods. If it's a rapidly gentrifying places like Harlem I wouldn't mind teaching there but forget Wakefield, the Black parts Brooklyn, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top