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Old 10-02-2015, 05:02 AM
 
3,571 posts, read 3,784,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
No job is overpaid or underpaid. Jobs pay what the market will bear.
Gross overcompensation, Collective Bargaining, Unions, and COL do not always accurately reflect what the market will bear.

The working conditions even within many of these jobs varies vastly- a HS teacher in a rough school in the bronx, gets paid the same as an elementary teacher in Little Neck.

Few things, if any, are ever Market Rate in NY with so many levels of government intervention.
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Old 10-02-2015, 06:08 AM
 
5,012 posts, read 5,899,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Not overpaid or underpaid. People choose to go into those jobs and know what they are getting. Teachers have summers and many homidYs off and many of them do have other jobs and careers. The summer vacation alone is way more than what workers in any other profession get.

And there is nothing wrong with the pay of any of those jobs or the order in which they are paid.

No job is overpaid or underpaid. Jobs pay what the market will bear.
This ^
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:18 AM
 
24,068 posts, read 17,474,477 times
Reputation: 9120
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
Gross overcompensation, Collective Bargaining, Unions, and COL do not always accurately reflect what the market will bear.

The working conditions even within many of these jobs varies vastly- a HS teacher in a rough school in the bronx, gets paid the same as an elementary teacher in Little Neck.

Few things, if any, are ever Market Rate in NY with so many levels of government intervention.
No one is forced to accept either the job in the South Bronx or in Little Neck.

You really don't like the concept of personal responsibility do you?

And yes unions and COL are all apart of the market.
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Old 10-02-2015, 01:22 PM
 
3,571 posts, read 3,784,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
No one is forced to accept either the job in the South Bronx or in Little Neck.

You really don't like the concept of personal responsibility do you?

And yes unions and COL are all apart of the market.
People have no choice but to work.
Pay, education, experience don't correlate... Possibly anywhere in the world, but certainly in NYC. That was my point to the post I responded to. You can tell people to pull up their bootstraps all they want... It won't avail certain positions.

Personal responsibility? That doesn't dignify an answer. I took nothing from NYC govt or relied on landlords forced subsidies.

... If I ran NYC, it'd be similar to the fed. Standardized pay grades across multiple agencies.

You'll find the pay in NYC goes up the harder the agency is to avoid despite your income. Which is a clear indicator of the OPs post.
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Old 10-02-2015, 07:16 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,885 posts, read 8,190,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Not overpaid or underpaid. People choose to go into those jobs and know what they are getting. Teachers have summers and many homidYs off and many of them do have other jobs and careers. The summer vacation alone is way more than what workers in any other profession get.

And there is nothing wrong with the pay of any of those jobs or the order in which they are paid.

No job is overpaid or underpaid. Jobs pay what the market will bear.

Each statement more incorrect than the last.

To point out just one glaring error. Most teachers work during the summer in order to survive financially.

Given student loan debt, accrued given the education required, their financial situations have worsened in many cases.

True ignorance as well in the amount of preparation any teaching job requires.
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Old 10-02-2015, 07:17 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,885 posts, read 8,190,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
People have no choice but to work.
Pay, education, experience don't correlate... Possibly anywhere in the world, but certainly in NYC. That was my point to the post I responded to. You can tell people to pull up their bootstraps all they want... It won't avail certain positions.

Personal responsibility? That doesn't dignify an answer. I took nothing from NYC govt or relied on landlords forced subsidies.
Exactly, and I know many people who did everything themselves.
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Old 10-03-2015, 08:52 AM
 
3,571 posts, read 3,784,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
Each statement more incorrect than the last.

To point out just one glaring error. Most teachers work during the summer in order to survive financially.

Given student loan debt, accrued given the education required, their financial situations have worsened in many cases.

True ignorance as well in the amount of preparation any teaching job requires.

Ever notice how teachers who work above and beyond their contracted day/year are the only city agency that get PAID LESS the more that they work?

Imagine if summer school got paid time and a half?!
Bloomberg screwed those people over. I feel truly bad for anyone who started in that industry in the last 10 years.
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:36 PM
 
24,068 posts, read 17,474,477 times
Reputation: 9120
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
People have no choice but to work.
Pay, education, experience don't correlate... Possibly anywhere in the world, but certainly in NYC. That was my point to the post I responded to. You can tell people to pull up their bootstraps all they want... It won't avail certain positions.

Personal responsibility? That doesn't dignify an answer. I took nothing from NYC govt or relied on landlords forced subsidies.

... If I ran NYC, it'd be similar to the fed. Standardized pay grades across multiple agencies.

You'll find the pay in NYC goes up the harder the agency is to avoid despite your income. Which is a clear indicator of the OPs post.
You don't run NYC and no NYC mayor can change pay grades like that.

And people do have a choice as to which jobs they take, particularly jobs that require years of education, training, or that one has to pass a civil service exam and go through lots of screening for.
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:44 PM
 
24,068 posts, read 17,474,477 times
Reputation: 9120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
Each statement more incorrect than the last.

To point out just one glaring error. Most teachers work during the summer in order to survive financially.

Given student loan debt, accrued given the education required, their financial situations have worsened in many cases.

True ignorance as well in the amount of preparation any teaching job requires.
Ten years of paying the minimum of student loan payments and teachers can get student loan forgiveness. There are other ways teachers can get student loan forgiveness. Of course it was there choice to take the student loans and become teachers in the first place.

And they know what they are going into when they start their careers as teachers AND go through the licensing process. For those that don't like it and end up leaving, fine that happens for many jobs and career paths.

Teachers compared to the average working class person are well PAID with lots of time off. Most working class people make not much more than the minimum wage and they don't get benefits.

Teacher may or may not work during the summer (that choice is there).

By the way prove most teachers work during the summer to survive financially. Do you have the data and studies to support this? If not you're making a claim that cannot be verified and speaking to your friends who are teachers provides no evidence that most teachers in NYC or nationally work to survive. You present lots of anecdotal evidence.

When someone chooses a career path, it is their responsibility to look into the career path and determine whether that's a viable option for them. If that is what they chose to do, fine.
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:48 PM
 
24,068 posts, read 17,474,477 times
Reputation: 9120
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
Ever notice how teachers who work above and beyond their contracted day/year are the only city agency that get PAID LESS the more that they work?

Imagine if summer school got paid time and a half?!
Bloomberg screwed those people over. I feel truly bad for anyone who started in that industry in the last 10 years.
I don't. Everyone who started in the past 10 years KNEW what they were getting into.

And summer jobs for teachers in NYC do not have to have anything to do with k-12. It's NYC there are lots of other options.

Several friends of mine who is a teacher has written off Broadway plays and had them produced at times.

Others who don't work during the summer take that time to travel, or do other things.

I am not making claims as to how most teachers spend their summers (I have no statistics) only that their vacation gives them a lot of options that many people do not have.
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