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Old 10-06-2015, 01:11 AM
 
23,254 posts, read 16,063,944 times
Reputation: 8534

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Despite the demonization of the government by those in the right on the forum historically the government has played a huge part in the lives of those in NYC who are now middle to upper class.

And of course whites were able to access these benefits earlier.

After WW2 veterans were able to do things like have the military pay for their college or get access to loans for favorable rates to buy homes in newly expanded suburbs. These houses were purchased cheaply and are now worth quite a bit of money.

Owning property affects families for generations. When a property owner dies, the heirs can use those assets to do things like pay for college, buy a home, etc.

The government also created subsidized mortgages which helped others buy cheap homes in the suburbs at this time.

And of course there's the civil service.

Policeman for example generally do own property. They can retire after 20 years. They could do other kinds of work or just retire if they want to. This is a solid entry into the middle class for many families as well. Cops can raise their kids in safe neighborhoods and send them to good schools. And yes being NYPD is a GOVERNMENT job!

In later generations Blacks and other minorities too have used military service and civil service jobs to move their families up socioeconomically.

Now people on this forum are correct that the massive housing projects are a disaster. Before the housing discrimination laws poor Blacks and Puerto Ricans were more or less herded into them, particularly by people like Robert Moses and his slum clearance programs. Of course when old people in projects die there is no inheritance, schools in bad neighborhoods tend to be subpar, and there are other barriers which make moving out of the projects or similarly bad circumstances difficult (but not impossible, clearly people do it).

The people who all deal with the "ghetto" people, whether cops,lawyers, social workers, teachers, hospital workers (think medicaid) are all making a good living off these poor people and establishing themselves and their families as middle class at a minimum.
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Old 10-06-2015, 09:50 AM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 7,633,154 times
Reputation: 14991
I've noticed you've conflated "ghetto" people (essentially a voluntary cultural mindset) with poor people (a factual circumstance) before. They are not coterminous at all.

I agree with your thesis how government "help", in the form of solid, benefited, salaried jobs to those willing to work has been a useful and effective leg up for those able to take advantage of it, and will continue to be so.
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:06 PM
 
11,493 posts, read 5,556,673 times
Reputation: 5949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
I've noticed you've conflated "ghetto" people (essentially a voluntary cultural mindset) with poor people (a factual circumstance) before. They are not coterminous at all.

I agree with your thesis how government "help", in the form of solid, benefited, salaried jobs to those willing to work has been a useful and effective leg up for those able to take advantage of it, and will continue to be so.
Let's be real here, there are plenty of posters here who likely view all people living in housing projects as "ghetto".
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Bronx
14,806 posts, read 17,410,399 times
Reputation: 7514
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Despite the demonization of the government by those in the right on the forum historically the government has played a huge part in the lives of those in NYC who are now middle to upper class.

And of course whites were able to access these benefits earlier.

After WW2 veterans were able to do things like have the military pay for their college or get access to loans for favorable rates to buy homes in newly expanded suburbs. These houses were purchased cheaply and are now worth quite a bit of money.

Owning property affects families for generations. When a property owner dies, the heirs can use those assets to do things like pay for college, buy a home, etc.

The government also created subsidized mortgages which helped others buy cheap homes in the suburbs at this time.

And of course there's the civil service.

Policeman for example generally do own property. They can retire after 20 years. They could do other kinds of work or just retire if they want to. This is a solid entry into the middle class for many families as well. Cops can raise their kids in safe neighborhoods and send them to good schools. And yes being NYPD is a GOVERNMENT job!

In later generations Blacks and other minorities too have used military service and civil service jobs to move their families up socioeconomically.

Now people on this forum are correct that the massive housing projects are a disaster. Before the housing discrimination laws poor Blacks and Puerto Ricans were more or less herded into them, particularly by people like Robert Moses and his slum clearance programs. Of course when old people in projects die there is no inheritance, schools in bad neighborhoods tend to be subpar, and there are other barriers which make moving out of the projects or similarly bad circumstances difficult (but not impossible, clearly people do it).

The people who all deal with the "ghetto" people, whether cops,lawyers, social workers, teachers, hospital workers (think medicaid) are all making a good living off these poor people and establishing themselves and their families as middle class at a minimum.
I knew of a woman. She was on welfare for good portion of her life. During the late 1990s, Guliani was a big supporter of welfare to work. Thanks to welfare to work she moved up and obtain a full time administration job and later on her first home and then go off of section 8. She even remarried. Government has paid a huge role in social mobility ever since the New Deal was issued in 1932, World War 2 and Korean War saw the creation expansion of the GI bill for veterans but also amongst minorities and women, and 1960s we saw the Great Society Movement.
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Old 10-06-2015, 01:46 PM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 7,633,154 times
Reputation: 14991
Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
Let's be real here, there are plenty of posters here who likely view all people living in housing projects as "ghetto".

yes there are. But at the same time you're not being "real" (ie honest) if you ignore the fact that plenty of people make a distinction between being poor and being "ghetto"
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Old 10-06-2015, 03:42 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,886 posts, read 7,827,199 times
Reputation: 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
yes there are. But at the same time you're not being "real" (ie honest) if you ignore the fact that plenty of people make a distinction between being poor and being "ghetto"
There is an enormous distinction.
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Old 11-27-2015, 04:51 PM
 
4 posts, read 1,937 times
Reputation: 10
Vets are discriminated against with section 8 vouchers just as bad as minorities are. I am a disabled vet who has hit a wall in trying to find a landlord who takes section 8. It's a shame. Americans should take care of their disabled Vets.
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Bronx
14,806 posts, read 17,410,399 times
Reputation: 7514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy61 View Post
Vets are discriminated against with section 8 vouchers just as bad as minorities are. I am a disabled vet who has hit a wall in trying to find a landlord who takes section 8. It's a shame. Americans should take care of their disabled Vets.
Veterans need our help. They should not be castes to shadows of society. Sadly liberals don't give a crap about vets.
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Old 11-28-2015, 05:31 AM
 
9,920 posts, read 7,687,681 times
Reputation: 4682
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Despite the demonization of the government by those in the right on the forum historically the government has played a huge part in the lives of those in NYC who are now middle to upper class.

And of course whites were able to access these benefits earlier.

After WW2 veterans were able to do things like have the military pay for their college or get access to loans for favorable rates to buy homes in newly expanded suburbs. These houses were purchased cheaply and are now worth quite a bit of money.

Owning property affects families for generations. When a property owner dies, the heirs can use those assets to do things like pay for college, buy a home, etc.

The government also created subsidized mortgages which helped others buy cheap homes in the suburbs at this time.

And of course there's the civil service.

Policeman for example generally do own property. They can retire after 20 years. They could do other kinds of work or just retire if they want to. This is a solid entry into the middle class for many families as well. Cops can raise their kids in safe neighborhoods and send them to good schools. And yes being NYPD is a GOVERNMENT job!

In later generations Blacks and other minorities too have used military service and civil service jobs to move their families up socioeconomically.

Now people on this forum are correct that the massive housing projects are a disaster. Before the housing discrimination laws poor Blacks and Puerto Ricans were more or less herded into them, particularly by people like Robert Moses and his slum clearance programs. Of course when old people in projects die there is no inheritance, schools in bad neighborhoods tend to be subpar, and there are other barriers which make moving out of the projects or similarly bad circumstances difficult (but not impossible, clearly people do it).

The people who all deal with the "ghetto" people, whether cops,lawyers, social workers, teachers, hospital workers (think medicaid) are all making a good living off these poor people and establishing themselves and their families as middle class at a minimum.
You must have been completely bored out of your mind on that 6th of October morning. The right doesn't necessarily mean to get riddance of all government programs, just that certain things should be in-scope and the focus point. Of course the government should help veterans, but they can't when they are so completely stretched with wasting resources away elsewhere. And subsidized housing and mortgages aren't free, and the government does have to play a role in housing some people, but lets face it, it creates arbitrage that eventually leads to risk and potential financial crisis.
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Old 11-28-2015, 06:34 AM
dun
 
193 posts, read 159,989 times
Reputation: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
Veterans need our help. They should not be castes to shadows of society. Sadly liberals don't give a crap about vets.
there are numerous issues where you can blame a side but when it comes to our veterans both sides should be ashamed. a very disgusting and real fact is that vets are disposable. Once they play their purpose they are dumped and forgotten. don't get me wrong they get awesome benefits and there are many success stories of those who have used the system to advance themselves in society, but those successes are overshadowed by the VA and the joke that they are. besides, social mobility is a myth nowadays. my parents went from lower class to middle class. i'd be damned lucky is i manage to stay middle class for my lifetime. (fingers crossed) the upper class isn't even on the horizon for somebody like me unless i win the mega millions
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