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Old 10-17-2015, 12:55 AM
 
2,681 posts, read 3,572,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss J 74 View Post

My point was don't tell me to move to a less desirable area if you're not willing to do it yourself. It's hypocritical.
Most people are willing to do it themselves. Only in NYC is there this widespread belief you're owed housing where you want to be housed.
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:01 AM
 
2,681 posts, read 3,572,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogeyDownDweller View Post
It's also this very right-wing disaster capitalist approach to gentrification. Uphold the 'sacred american value of private property' as justification for colonization. Like when the europeans bought manhattan for $72 and then said, "oh well this is ours now so you native americans need to leave. Yes I know you have lived here for generations, but hey we're richer than you!" Why I like this comparison is because, then like now, the natives have never seen the land as something exclusively private. Then like now, we don't see our parks for sale for development.
If you don't own the property, then you don't own the right to dwell in it without the owners permission. The very fact that Manhattan was brought in a fair transaction is actually a pretty benign historical event. In most cases, some group of people shows up with bigger guns/spears and says "Mine".
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:12 AM
 
2,681 posts, read 3,572,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogeyDownDweller View Post
Why not if your low-income? Why should someone low-income not have the same right to live in a desirable city. Just because someone is low-income doesn't make them less human than you.
True. I think the amount of NYers who genuinley feel there should be no social supports whatsoever is very small. I also don't think anyone is owed an apartment on 5th ave.


Quote:
Why should manhattan now suddenly just become a playground for the investment banker since it's "hot" especially since most areas of lower manhattan were homes to culturally and economically marginalized groups.
Ok, so if all the rich white folk just up and leave you'll be back to having the same cultural and economic marginalization that caused such inequities in the first place. I for one think it's smarter to have rich people here to pay into the tax base which helps poorer NYers.


Quote:
This is part of why I am a big fan of building new high density public housing units. These current private/public affordable housing lotteries are a joke in the amount of units and their mixed-income nature. They don't even touch the tip of the iceberg of the new affordable housing crisis that has emerged with gentrifcation. The last NYCHA housing was built in the 70s and 80s, and that was the last time that I think most New Yorkers were not in this sort of affordable housing crisis.
They're also socially corrosive and segregationist. I applaud efforts to try and create more mixing of economic and social strata.
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:19 AM
 
2,681 posts, read 3,572,925 times
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Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
Because that would require ability in critical thinking. You could work on this but for many it is simply impossible. It doesn't even have so much to do with exceptional intelligence.

The second statement is patently false.

I can also afford anything BUT - and I feel fortunate as well as (apparently) rare - I also somehow have an understanding that not everyone has this privilege. I also understand that people who have lived most of their lives here are being shoved out due to circumstances beyond their control. This is really wrong.

It's also ugly in a nearly aesthetic sense. I simply do not ever want to know the newcomer New-York-City-as-consumable-object people I have encountered. It's almost worth moving to get away from them. But alas, as we speak, even Havana is being aggressively milked for profit by American hedge funders and their ilk. There is no escape except the refuge of a very small group of people.

Is it something they put in the food ? water ? what ? How did they get people to be incapable of seeing bigger pictures, causes, the basis of an ethical society. I don't get it.
What defines your sense of "ethics"? Would you support some Archie-Bunker-esque neighborhood putting up a defense against *ahem* "Those People" moving in? Neighborhoods change and places change.
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:33 AM
 
Location: A box below 59th
655 posts, read 521,167 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Disproportionately the people leaving the city are idiots who insist on living in the most expensive neighborhoods.

Hells Kitchen/Midtown West, Dumbo, Tribeca?

There's South Brooklyn, there's Queens away from Western Queens, there's Staten Island (Gasp?), upper Manhattan, and the Bronx. There's also moving across the river to Jersey. I have no sympathy for people who wine about not being able to instantly get a fabulous place in NYC's most expensive neighborhoods.
Unless someone needs to live in NY for career advancement or family, there is absolutely no reason to live in the city unless it's in the interesting parts of Manhattan. There's a mentality amongst some folks that 'NYC is the best, therefore I'm the best if I can make it here (despite living in tumbleweed Brooklyn an hour from anywhere).'

And it's hilarious.

Most of the outer boroughs are just dense bedroom communities and I can only chuckle at people who pay $2000 a month to be 'near the thick of it' in Rego Park. There are far better cost/benefit propositions in the US. Even in the North-East of the US. Moving to those places is not failure... unless you're sad enough to bind your ego to big-city bragging rights.

To answer the OP: if you can't afford the neighborhoods you like and you don't need to be in the city then go elsewhere. What's the point in drastically compromising your QOL just to be in NYC? Move away, save and invest, then come back and live in the global neighborhoods instead of suffering and haemorrhaging cash in second-choice places 'only 65 minutes from Midtown'.
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:54 AM
 
Location: A box below 59th
655 posts, read 521,167 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Manhattan has the highest salaries of any county in the U.S., and the U.S. is the richest country on earth, so actually you have no idea what you're talking about. There is no better place on the planet to make a good salary than NYC.
No. You can make your point (which is mostly sound) without indulging in specious nonsense about New York. If you want a city that offers higher incomes, try Zurich. Which, incidentally, has excellent social programs.
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Old 10-17-2015, 08:19 AM
 
901 posts, read 1,163,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss J 74 View Post
Not everyone wants to deal with a commute of over an hour that involves a hassle or extra expense. (Staten island comes to mind) Not to mention places that involve taking a bus to the train. I did it for years and never want to again. I don't care about being in a hip area, but even the outskirts are going. There's already a push as far south as Kings Highway.
This, ppl underestimate just how much costly commuting here is if u live out the range of the subway + wasting 2-4hrs of your life commuting to work sucks ass.

Ask anyone who lives in Queens or Yonkers or Bronx and take public transportation just to get to their job in the city. Wake up at 6am for a crummy 9-5pm job because even though google maps says commute is 2hrs, there is always something wrong on the 4 train (insert w.e. train) and your boss don't care if train was delayed causing you to wake up even EARLIER than 6am just to make it to a 9am job. Doing that 5 days out of the week sucks period. Lets not even get into transportation costs that charges well over than what they are worth. Tracks really are horrible and I'm sorry but if taking a bus to get to destination A is only a little bit slower than taking the damn MNR train we getting robbed people. Just getting a monthly from some suburbs is easily near or >$300 and that does not include the $30 weekly x 4 = $120 metro card you'll be buying for the month. That's a good $300-$400 bucks out your pocket just because you live far away. Guess what, I hear to pay off that $30 billion debt, subway fare prices going to get hiked soon despite crappy service and oh yeah flat wages.
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Old 10-17-2015, 08:50 AM
 
9,701 posts, read 6,666,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compactspace View Post
No. You can make your point (which is mostly sound) without indulging in specious nonsense about New York. If you want a city that offers higher incomes, try Zurich. Which, incidentally, has excellent social programs.
Actually, yes, Manhattan does have the highest salaries. You are the one engaging in "specious nonsense". It would be extremely foolish to move from NYC to Zurich for the purpose of relative buying power.

Zurich (and Switzerland) generally has lower salaries than the U.S. and much higher cost of living. Here's gross income by nation- The U.S. is slightly wealthier than Switzerland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_average_wage

But once you factor in cost of living, it isn't even close. A cup of coffee in Zurich is around $8 U.S. A single transit fare is around $12. A modest apartment is around $3,000. I actually had family living in Switzerland for a time (they are from Germany) and they could barely afford meat. A chicken costs $20 U.S. Steak is insanely expensive. A modest dinner for 2 at an OK restaurant is around $150. There are taxes for your car, for your private parking space, for your lawn, for your bike, for your pets.

And the Swiss have some of the weakest social programs in Western Europe, so no idea what you're talking about. Compared to Germany and France the Swiss social net sucks. The social net in NYC is much stronger, as we are like 60% rent regulated housing, and we have universal benefits for all, even for single men. The Swiss don't do this stuff.
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Old 10-17-2015, 08:55 AM
 
1,007 posts, read 579,270 times
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Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
True. I think the amount of NYers who genuinley feel there should be no social supports whatsoever is very small. I also don't think anyone is owed an apartment on 5th ave.
Obviously, most New Yorkers in fact support far more social supports, and this is what I'm arguing given the current war on the poor.


Quote:
Ok, so if all the rich white folk just up and leave you'll be back to having the same cultural and economic marginalization that caused such inequities in the first place. I for one think it's smarter to have rich people here to pay into the tax base which helps poorer NYers.
Except the rich pay very little into community resources for the poor. Proportionately, poor people pay way more of their income in taxes than the rich. I don't by the way think that people should be poor in New York City where there is so much wealth, and I don't think that the rich should be as wildly rich as they are now. Did you know that if you made a thousand dollars a day from the day jesus christ was born you would still not be a billionaire? This goes to show the stupidity of the current income inequality gap. These people are so greedy they have more money they they know what to do with, and still are insistant on hoarding it in tax shelters. New York Times actually did a very interesting piece about how if just the top 1%, those making 2 million or more a year, were taxed at a rate of 40% this would generate an additonal 300 Billion dollars nation wide. That's real revenue that could be used for universal education, healthcare, and housing (all of which should exist in a city with such wealth). Funny thing is, these folks would still take home at least $1 million a year.


Quote:
They're also socially corrosive and segregationist. I applaud efforts to try and create more mixing of economic and social strata.
That's only because many housing projects were not built with quality in mind, and were not maintained well. Take a look at Taino Towers for instance (if you don't know google it) It is a beautiful Section 8 complex in East harlem of 4 buildings with giant windows and high ceilings. Apartments range for 1 to 6 bedrooms! On the ground floor there is a health clinic, theater, stores, employment programs, and there was to be a pool as well. This should be a model of how public housing for the future should look like. I don't think the low density nature of the current affordable housing, and the fact that most of the units in these building are market rate really put a dent in the affordable housing crisis. Furthermore, these buildings enjoy very generous subsidies from the taxpayer despite only providing a small fraction of affordable housing units (most don't provide more than 50 units of affordable housing but then have 200 units of market rate). the 421-A program needs to be radically reformed or thrown out, because now it's just a gift to the greedy developers.
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Old 10-17-2015, 08:55 AM
 
Location: New York City
372 posts, read 284,875 times
Reputation: 242
Highest salary is a relative thing and virtually meaningless. If you're counting corporate executives and hedge fund managers that are raking in millions a year, then sure. But let's be realistic here; the average person isn't going to come anywhere close to approaching that kind of wage.

By and large I can make more money in Seattle or Austin doing administrative work and pay far less in terms of living costs. I can get up to $15 an hour doing restaurant work in Seattle if I really wanted.

If you're looking at salaries you have to compare industry to industry or you're completely skewing things.
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