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Exactly. Bedsuty, Bushwick, and Crown Heights are still ghetto (just not super ghetto) and if the whites who moved in moved up socioeconomically they will leave for better places.
I am white, wife is Hispanic, I have two Ivy League degrees, have seven figures liquid in the bank, and I want to buy a home in Bed Stuy, but I'm having trouble affording it. I know many, many people like me, who have lots of money, love the area and are moving (or trying to move) into Bed Stuy.
We love the area. We aren't going anywhere. We want to be in Brooklyn, nowhere else. We love the brownstones, the community, the diversity, the proximity to Manhattan. An equivalent Park Slope or Cobble Hill home costs at least twice as much, so not an option unless truly wealthy.
Young folks with money want Brownstone Brooklyn. You might not agree with their preferences, but this is reality. I don't know anyone in my social circle who would live somewhere like Scarsdale or Great Neck or Short Hills over Brownstone Brooklyn. We want urban, dense, walkable, transit oriented, and close to Manhattan.
All three areas have tons of gentrification. They are all very expensive.
You cannot get an decent-sized, intact Bed Stuy house for less than 1.5. Even far east Bed Stuy, closer to Broadway Junction, it just isn't going to happen. I know, because I'm in the market right now, and I can't find anything (yet) that's decent and in my price range.
That's speculative investing though. While investors are flipping properties and pushing up the purchase price of real estate Bedsuty, Bushwick, and Crown Heights are NOT top destinations to live in and they have a long way to go before they get there.
There's been improvement and I think everyone on this forum would agree that. But Bedstuy and Bushwick are nowhere near Williamsburg, Chelsea, or LIC gentrification.
Even the homes selling for 1.5 million people. Who lives in them? Landlords are likely renting them out to whites who are recent graduates. As these people move up in their lives they will either moved up Manhattan, Western Brooklyn, or Western Queens, to the suburbs, back to where they came from or other places.
In terms of nice stores coming to Bedstuy, Crown Heights, or Bushwick like Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Apple, in terms of these neighborhoods having a diversity of banks or gyms or any sign of a well off neighborhood, there is nothing like that in these places. The retail sector knows these neighborhoods are still ghetto (not super ghetto like they used to be). On this I do agree with G-Dale, Anon, and Bronxguyanese.
So, one way or another gentrification is going to hit East New York. So, what's left after that? How far can this process go, Canarsie? I mean, what's left? The suburbs of Canarsie? Flatlands? Starret City? I think, it's preordained-by the powers that be and greed. Once Brooklyn rivals Manhattan, there's going to be no choice but to gentrify the whole Brooklyn, like Manhattan. We are witnessing the future of NYC, right before our very own eyes.
Sure are good at stirring up drama and sensationalism, despite your screen name's suggestion otherwise
I am white, wife is Hispanic, I have two Ivy League degrees, have seven figures liquid in the bank, and I want to buy a home in Bed Stuy, but I'm having trouble affording it. I know many, many people like me, who have lots of money, love the area and are moving (or trying to move) into Bed Stuy.
We love the area. We aren't going anywhere. We want to be in Brooklyn, nowhere else. We love the brownstones, the community, the diversity, the proximity to Manhattan. An equivalent Park Slope or Cobble Hill home costs at least twice as much, so not an option unless truly wealthy.
Young folks with money want Brownstone Brooklyn. You might not agree with their preferences, but this is reality. I don't know anyone in my social circle who would live somewhere like Scarsdale or Great Neck or Short Hills over Brownstone Brooklyn. We want urban, dense, walkable, transit oriented, and close to Manhattan.
That's you and your personal friends. NYC is and has been a revolving door for young whites for years, including whites with Ivy League degrees. They come here for education, or to do things like clerk at a top law firm, do a medical residency, have an important internship and MANY LEAVE.
It's a myth that all or even most young whites want to be in Brooklyn.
NYC's suburbs still have very expensive housing, so clearly not all suburbanites are selling to move into Bedstuy and in fact I'm sure very few do. Ghetto neighborhoods as I said get marginal white populations such as recent graduates, those not fully established in their careers, students who can't afford better, etc.
The real estate prices in lower Manhattan far outstrip brownstone Brooklyn so that let's you know where the REAL demand is. It isn't in Bedstuy, Crown Heights, or Bushwick. Of the 7 Ivy Leagues that have clubs in NYC, their clubs are in Midtown Manhattan not in Brooklyn as their most successful alumnae live in Manhattan and have houses in the SUBURBS!
Call me when some Ivy Leaguer like Bloomberg (who has children and grandchildren) buys in Bedstuy, Crown Heights, or Bushwick. Those neighborhoods will likely never get to that point and you know it!
First let's wait and see if Bushwick, Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights gentrify first. So far they've just went from super ghetto status to regular ghetto status.
Haha.
Upper Bushwick might be entering the early phases of "nominally ghetto" status.
Brownsville is a LONG way off from bring gentrified, and ENY may improve, but I don't see it changing anytime soon. The issue is the commute gets longer the further you get from Broadway Junction. No one moving into NYC wants more than a 40 minute commute. Every article I've read backs this up. For that very reason, Flatlands and Starrett will not change since they are not accessible by train. Part of Canarsie, same story as well as parts of Brownsville. Anywhere that requires a bus to a train may improve housing cost and rental cost wise, but you won't really see hipsters moving in to those areas.
That's speculative investing though. While investors are flipping properties and pushing up the purchase price of real estate Bedsuty, Bushwick, and Crown Heights are NOT top destinations to live in and they have a long way to go before they get there.
No, most of these homes are single family homes bought by families. Speculative investors have long since left Bed Stuy, where there have been no deals for 15 years. The speculators are all in ENY/Brownsville, knocking on doors, trying to get the old folks to sell.
Is Bed Stuy a top destinations like the Upper East Side? Hell no. But I can't afford a $25 million townhouse on the UES. I can afford a $1.5 million townhouse in Brooklyn (I think), so that's what I'm buying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
There's been improvement and I think everyone on this forum would agree that. But Bedstuy and Bushwick are nowhere near Williamsburg, Chelsea, or LIC gentrification.
Williamsburg and Chelsea are both much more gentrified, and much more expensive. I can't afford a single family house in these areas. LIC is a formerly industrial area that isn't more expensive than Bed Stuy, and has almost no brownstones anyways, so not an option for the brownstone set.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Even the homes selling for 1.5 million people. Who lives in them? Landlords are likely renting them out to whites who are recent graduates. As these people move up in their lives they will either moved up Manhattan, Western Brooklyn, or Western Queens, to the suburbs, back to where they came from or other places.
No, these are single family homes. Recent grads don't live in single family homes. Bed Stuy has a relatively high homeownership rate. Grads live in multifamily rental housing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
In terms of nice stores coming to Bedstuy, Crown Heights, or Bushwick like Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Apple, in terms of these neighborhoods having a diversity of banks or gyms or any sign of a well off neighborhood, there is nothing like that in these places.
True, but that doesn't mean the area isn't gentrifying. There is no Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Apple in Williamsburg, Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights either. Doesn't mean "the retail sector knows those areas are still ghetto" it means that you don't put these stores in every neighborhood in the city (these stores don't exist on the UES either, the richest urban neighborhood on the planet).
That's you and your personal friends. NYC is and has been a revolving door for young whites for years, including whites with Ivy League degrees. They come here for education, or to do things like clerk at a top law firm, do a medical residency, have an important internship and MANY LEAVE.
It's a myth that all or even most young whites want to be in Brooklyn.
NYC's suburbs still have very expensive housing, so clearly not all suburbanites are selling to move into Bedstuy and in fact I'm sure very few do. Ghetto neighborhoods as I said get marginal white populations such as recent graduates, those not fully established in their careers, students who can't afford better, etc.
The real estate prices in lower Manhattan far outstrip brownstone Brooklyn so that let's you know where the REAL demand is. It isn't in Bedstuy, Crown Heights, or Bushwick. Of the 7 Ivy Leagues that have clubs in NYC, their clubs are in Midtown Manhattan not in Brooklyn as their most successful alumnae live in Manhattan and have houses in the SUBURBS!
Call me when some Ivy Leaguer like Bloomberg (who has children and grandchildren) buys in Bedstuy, Crown Heights, or Bushwick. Those neighborhoods will likely never get to that point and you know it!
Bloomberg is a Park Avenue Republican type and a billionaire. Of course he wouldn't move to Bushwick. Then again, he probably wouldn't move to the East or West Village either, and those are formerly slummy areas of Manhattan yet many Ivy League types live there now.
That's you and your personal friends. NYC is and has been a revolving door for young whites for years, including whites with Ivy League degrees. They come here for education, or to do things like clerk at a top law firm, do a medical residency, have an important internship and MANY LEAVE.
It's a myth that all or even most young whites want to be in Brooklyn.
I never claimed that every single white person in the world wants to be in Brooklyn, or that no one ever leaves Brooklyn. So not sure what these (very obvious) comments of yours have to do with anything
But the fact is that Bed Stuy has the fastest growing white population in the entire city, so obviously there are plenty of white people moving in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
NYC's suburbs still have very expensive housing, so clearly not all suburbanites are selling to move into Bedstuy and in fact I'm sure very few do. Ghetto neighborhoods as I said get marginal white populations such as recent graduates, those not fully established in their careers, students who can't afford better, etc.
None of this is true. Brownstone Brooklyn is much more expensive than wealthy suburbs of NYC. You actually get much more for your dollar these days somewhere like Scarsdale or Great Neck than in Bed Stuy. That's because Bed Stuy is more desirable. Young people, speaking generally, don't want to be with the fogies in the suburbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
The real estate prices in lower Manhattan far outstrip brownstone Brooklyn so that let's you know where the REAL demand is. It isn't in Bedstuy, Crown Heights, or Bushwick. Of the 7 Ivy Leagues that have clubs in NYC, their clubs are in Midtown Manhattan not in Brooklyn as their most successful alumnae live in Manhattan and have houses in the SUBURBS!
I have no idea what any of this means. The fact that Lower Manhattan is more expensive than Bed Stuy (very true) doesn't mean that Bed Stuy isn't gentrifying. Lower Manhattan is also far more expensive than Paris, Monaco, the Hamptons, Malibu and Beverly Hills. Using your logic these areas are all ghettos because they are cheaper than SoHo and Tribeca.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Call me when some Ivy Leaguer like Bloomberg (who has children and grandchildren) buys in Bedstuy, Crown Heights, or Bushwick. Those neighborhoods will likely never get to that point and you know it!
One of Bloomberg's daughters actually lives on the Clinton Hill/Bed Stuy (off Classon) border, so funny you should mention Bloomberg. Bloomberg is a Hopkins grad and not really an Ivy Leaguer (though he has a grad degree from Harvard). If he were 30 he would probably be living in Brooklyn too.
Uma Thurman's family has a place actually in Eastern Bed Stuy. A top Vogue editor recently moved from Park Ave. to a Bed Stuy brownstone. A partner in my wife's law firm lives on McDonough Street. There are plenty of prominent people already living in the area.
Broadway Junction area is not that bad and will probably come up in the next 10 years because of it's transit density and LIRR station, but it's still sparsely populated by white people. The majority of waspy whites get off at Myrtle/Broadway in Bushwick and it trails off from there.
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