Robert Moses (New York, Islip, Albany: crime, broker, homes)

[jcladue]

The CBE goes right through E.Tremont, desigened intentionally to keep property values down and the neighborhood in poverty. There was a much better option for placement of the expressway just south of its current location that would have not effected a thing. Why did he put this 60-foot span over the heads of the people in that neighborhood? Check out Robert Caro's "Power Broker"-It talks about the intentional relegation of undesirable neighborhoods to even more undesirable neighborhoods and how Moses had hundreds of plans to do to many parts of the city what he did, intentionally, to E Tremont. They were, however, all met with protest and were thrown out.

[jcladue]

WOW-we must have been writing this at the same time.

Originally Posted by holden125

It's more East Tremont. The book The Power Broker, a very long and unflattering bio of Moses, discussed East Tremont and the CBE in some detail. The basic storyline is that Moses was asked to place the highway along the northern edge of Crotona Park so as not to destroy large numbers of buildings in the neighborhood. He refused, supposedly because he didn't want to disturb a bus depot just east of the park that was owned by an influential crony. Therefore a lot of apartment buildings were destroyed, there was noise, soot, rats, and people started to move out. People of color who lived south of the park saw the cheaper rents and started to move in, accelerating the white flight. Soon the neighborhood was seen as more dangerous because you had to walk around a giant construction pit and the changing demographics were not viewed favorably by the old residents. As the area went downhill in people's minds, the bus depot closed anyway. While Moses saw the area as no big deal, a lot of the people who lived there said they had nice, if modest, pre-war apartments. I think a lot of the apartment there were not that different from what you still see on Ft. Wash Ave in Manhattan. Older brick bldgs with some big rooms and nice period details but could use a little sprucing up.

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by holden125

It's more East Tremont. The book The Power Broker, a very long and unflattering bio of Moses,

caro and his book have been widely discredited as being a subjective and unfactual. Caro is a jealous man and his work reflects his biases, if you are basing your views from caro's distortion of reality, you're all wet

[NooYowkur81]

CBE was probably the worst of Moses' legacy. It basically ruined a lot of the Bronx. At the time the CBE was built a lot of Manhattan was slummy and the Bronx was very middle class. So you kinda have to keep that in mind.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by jcladue

Not Coney Island, Brighton or Far Rockaway, but everything else. They used to have really nice cottages and buildings along the Atlantic coast line. Now they have all been demolished and it seems like there is a lot of ugly public housing, boardwalks that lead to nowhere and grass-sprouting parking lots. I know for a fact that Moses was responsible for a handful of parking lots in this area, exact locations I will have to research, however.

Ok, Brooklyn and Queens beaches -- not Jones Beach.

I prefer natural beaches unfettered by shanties, bungalows and housing projects.

Unfortunately Donald Trump has ideas about destroying Jones Beach.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by NooYowkur81

CBE was probably the worst of Moses' legacy. It basically ruined a lot of the Bronx. At the time the CBE was built a lot of Manhattan was slummy and the Bronx was very middle class. So you kinda have to keep that in mind.

My mother was born and raised in the Bronx, lived on the Grand Concourse, shopped on Fordham Rd. She would tell us how wonderful it was back then, as we drove into the Bronx to visit relatives. As a child, I will never forget how dismal the area looked. She would blame the CBE for tearing the Bronx apart.

[scatman]

Moses, in a consulting role, recommended to the State of Louisiana that what is now 1-10 run right through the French Quarter. Thankfully, they decided to run the highway right above it!

[jcladue]

haha-no, I am not basing EVERYTHING entirely on Cairo. In fact, nothing that I have said can ONLY be found in the Moses bio. My knowledge of Robert Moses goes above and beyond the Caro book, I just think it is the ultimate, quick read on many of the things the man has done wrong.

Originally Posted by apvbguy

caro and his book have been widely discredited as being a subjective and unfactual. Caro is a jealous man and his work reflects his biases, if you are basing your views from caro's distortion of reality, you're all wet

[jcladue]

Correct-I was not referring to any of the Nassau County beach front, just some of BK and most of Queens. It's like a ghost town down there, with the occasional lone soul. What's the name of that area with the grid streets, that is right on the waterfront. It's right by Far Rockaway. I want to say Ridge....something. There's literally NOTHING but sand dunes, parking lots and street signs.

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

Ok, Brooklyn and Queens beaches -- not Jones Beach.

I prefer natural beaches unfettered by shanties, bungalows and housing projects.

Unfortunately Donald Trump has ideas about destroying Jones Beach.

[holden125]

Originally Posted by apvbguy

caro and his book have been widely discredited as being a subjective and unfactual. Caro is a jealous man and his work reflects his biases, if you are basing your views from caro's distortion of reality, you're all wet

I never said that the book was 100% but some of it is hard to dispute. It has become fashionable to rehabilitate Moses in recent years. Last year there were three interesting exhibits on the subject at the same time. I don't really share that view because I think a lot of the decisions made were poor.

I basically agree that the biggest problem was that Moses had too much unchecked power. He was also a product of his times and pushed through the types of projects that were being pushed through everywhere, but his grip on power led him to be arrogant and unwilling to listen to others. He wouldn't even let the Dodgers build a stadium near the LIRR terminal in Brooklyn with their own funds, and they wound up in LA as a result.