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You're talking about the higher end of the scale, What are the People, Couples, Families who live in Williamsburg, Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, etc. who have decent jobs but aren't millionaires but want to own or rent more space but can't afford the prices in their current neighborhood go? What if you're young and doing the roommate thing, you don't make a ton of money and want to go out and party and not spend all of your income on rent, won't they just find the next "best" cheaper place down the train line?
A neighborhood doesn't have to hit Manhattan prices to be considered gentrifying or gentrified. a $1.2 million house in Bed-Stuy is not an option for a lot of people even with decent stable jobs. $1.2 is how much a house out in Sunset Park now costs and that the same commute time wise with less transit options than ENY.
Harlem has BEEN gentrifying for a long time now.
For young people you still need to be a reasonable distance from work. If you're too far from work AND from places where you'd like to socialize any benefit from lower rents are negated. As for families they tend to consider facilities like good grocery stores, good retail, good schools, etc. All of those are in short supply in ENY and Brownsville. After awhile you get what you pay for.
It would take massive corporate investment to make ENY and Brownsville desirable places for gentrifiers and so far that has not happened.
As for Harlem some parts are gentrified, and some have not. Central Harlem in the 130s has not gentrified, nor has East Harlem in the teens and 20s. I'd say East Harlem gentrification is currently extending to 110th. West Harlem in part because of Columbia and City College is more gentrified (to the 150s).
Harlem is hood, bedstuy is hood, South Bronx is hood. However they are closer to Manhattan vs. Eny and Brownsville. If anything bayridge would have gentrified or even all of Staten Island would have gentrified longtime ago. Transients look for proximity first and foremost more than anything else.
Harlem WAS hood. Harlem is tame compared to the South Bronx, ENY, and Brownsville. it lost it's black majority a long time ago. the reasons why Harlem gentrified rather quickly are because; 1) It's Manhattan 2) white folks were already living in Harlem. they've BEEN on central park north, central park west, manhattan ave, near Columbia, convent avenue, morningside avenue. 3)Harlem's housing stock is rather rich. those old, spacious brownstones were smacked, flipped, rubbed down, and priced up, in the millions, due to its value. there are so many pre-war apartments in Harlem realtors couldnt wait to get their hands on em. This is how I know the Bronx is going to gentrify. There is absolutely no way in the world, these developers are going to let all that good housing on the concourse, with those art deco buildings, remain occupied by minorities. Forget about it.
Harlem WAS hood. Harlem is tame compared to the South Bronx, ENY, and Brownsville. it lost it's black majority a long time ago. the reasons why Harlem gentrified rather quickly are because; 1) It's Manhattan 2) white folks were already living in Harlem. they've BEEN on central park north, central park west, manhattan ave, near Columbia, convent avenue, morningside avenue. 3)Harlem's housing stock is rather rich. those old, spacious brownstones were smacked, flipped, rubbed down, and priced up, in the millions, due to its value. there are so many pre-war apartments in Harlem realtors couldnt wait to get their hands on em. This is how I know the Bronx is going to gentrify. There is absolutely no way in the world, these developers are going to let all that good housing on the concourse, with those art deco buildings, remain occupied by minorities. Forget about it.
In order to displace the poor people in the Bronx it's going to take a fantastic amount of private sector investment and this money may not be forthcoming. If the South Bronx were to become a job center THAT would certainly displace poor people from the Concourse. But that has not happened presently. We may be decades away from that.
Harlem is close enough to midtown and has it's own major institutions (hospitals and academic centers) and that helped in gentrification.
Lastly Harlem is not predominately white either and it has a long way to go to get to that point. The Hispanic and Asian populations have grown here, and many of the Blacks are African or Afro Latino. Some parts have many housing projects and those people are not going anywhere. While the city will eventually sell Manhattan NYCHA's, so far they are going to focus on the areas where they can get the most money and that isn't Harlem. Some low income housing has been sold in Harlem, but there's so much of that they have years of inventory to go through.
And lastly believe it or nor minorities don't have to leave a neighborhood just because of gentrification. Minorities can and do move up socioeconomically and some even buy property.
You're talking about the higher end of the scale, What are the People, Couples, Families who live in Williamsburg, Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, etc. who have decent jobs but aren't millionaires but want to own or rent more space but can't afford the prices in their current neighborhood go? What if you're young and doing the roommate thing, you don't make a ton of money and want to go out and party and not spend all of your income on rent, won't they just find the next "best" cheaper place down the train line?
A neighborhood doesn't have to hit Manhattan prices to be considered gentrifying or gentrified. a $1.2 million house in Bed-Stuy is not an option for a lot of people even with decent stable jobs. $1.2 is how much a house out in Sunset Park now costs and that the same commute time wise with less transit options than ENY.
Harlem has BEEN gentrifying for a long time now.
Most will end up moving to Queens or Long Island than Brownsville or ENY.
You guys read so much into every little development. Connecting the 3 and L trains at this location seems to make sense logistically and will be an improvement. I don't believe its going to be a new major transportation hub that completely revamps how the majority of riders use the subway.
You guys read so much into every little development. Connecting the 3 and L trains at this location seems to make sense logistically and will be an improvement. I don't believe its going to be a new major transportation hub that completely revamps how the majority of riders use the subway.
This.
I honestly don't see how connecting 2 trains that are less than a block from each other means gentrification is coming. That's quite a bit of a stretch to say the least. It's not much different than when they connected other lines that needed to be done, such as Jay St Metrotech with the F, R, A and C or at Queens Plaza with the G, 7, E and F trains.
Also Canarsie is being lumped in with ENY and Brownsville because it is next door to both, and since it seems everything along the L train is becoming "hip", Canarsie is at the end of the line. It's actually not a far commute either, end to end (at least when I was growing up) going from Rockaway Parkway to 8th Ave was about 35-40 mins.
For the person who said Kings Highway isn't changing, it actually is, just slowly. The push has already started to come into Midwood and Flatbush from Ditmas Park spillover. I'm seeing quite a few transplants getting off on the Q train at Newkirk down to Kings Highway lately.
I honestly don't see how connecting 2 trains that are less than a block from each other means gentrification is coming. That's quite a bit of a stretch to say the least. It's not much different than when they connected other lines that needed to be done, such as Jay St Metrotech with the F, R, A and C or at Queens Plaza with the G, 7, E and F trains.
Also Canarsie is being lumped in with ENY and Brownsville because it is next door to both, and since it seems everything along the L train is becoming "hip", Canarsie is at the end of the line. It's actually not a far commute either, end to end (at least when I was growing up) going from Rockaway Parkway to 8th Ave was about 35-40 mins.
For the person who said Kings Highway isn't changing, it actually is, just slowly. The push has already started to come into Midwood and Flatbush from Ditmas Park spillover. I'm seeing quite a few transplants getting off on the Q train at Newkirk down to Kings Highway lately.
Damn. Do you see any Midwesterner getting off at Avenue j?
Yup. Ave H, Ave J, and Ave M. I've also seen a few at the Chipotle by the Kings Highway stop, so they could be getting off there as well.
There's at least 2 in my building now.
I was last in kings Highway 2 months ago. I did not see no transient types and the Chipotle at kings Highway made me go to the bathroom.
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