U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-12-2008, 11:40 PM
 
418 posts, read 44,026 times
Reputation: 37

Advertisements

''Luxury housing HAS to be built in the Bronx in order to bring decent people from outside. I propose a luxury development limited to people with upper 6-figure incomes. And, IT HAS TO BE SUBSIDIZED by the City.''

That works against the flow of a free market though. That has been the problem with shoving losers into the projects. The truth is new buildings have come and yes you're right, they are usually intended for the lower-middle class, but that's what the Bronx is. What they should do is create a better mix and match. The working people in the Bronx should continue to live here. If you work hard for your money, the Bronx belongs much more to them rather than someone looking to get a 50 thousand dollar break on a home by leaving Queens. Usually, people that move to an area simply for a real-estate price don't make the best decisions. That's why so many people in Florida are stuck with low-paying non-secure jobs along with the fact they'll never sell there houses.

Some new-comers would be healthy, as some will choose to leave. There is enough talent here to work with though. People need to simply take it up a notch. If you don't go to college (and don't come from money - as most don't in the Bronx) and you want to live in this city, don't expect a quality life. Except a lower-middle class one at best. Personally, I don't believe a lower-middle class means the area equals a crap box, but it says people in the area are working and care about there place. The problem is the physically-able dirt poor that doesn't work. If you don't work, you simply don't have the right to live in the Bronx. You don't have the right to have a child. Capitalism would even tell them they don't even have the right to eat or live.

The city does need to be involved in this, but there are plenty of companies who wouldn't mind making a buck off of this. Regardless, it will create more jobs and knock the human trash out of the Bronx. It's all about how quick we want this to happen.

I wouldn't pamper anyone by bringing them to the train. Personally, that's the last thing the Bronx needs. It'd give off the wrong scent to the working-class. There would be massive polarization and probably racial tensions between blacks and whites/non-blacks, because they'd be too cowardly to admit the reasoning for the lifestyle you live is dependent upon your education and economics. If they want to get the drug dealers and human trash out, the city should literally evacuate them and demolish the buildings. I understand it's very political, but would it really be that bad? If the city planned on subsidizing a program and put cops to protect them, wouldn't it be more wiser to dispose of their trash first? Why put all the money into protecting the upper-middle class from the trash, if they could voluntarily just force them out - being that it is there buildings? It would do them good, being that it'd make them work or give up their kid's to the state and go homeless. This is capitalism. There is no room for health people under the age of 65 who don't work.

Believe it or not, Bloomberg isn't all that bad. I'd still say he's handled this city okay and a lot better than Giuliani (outside of those months post-9/11 when people forgot about how crappy of a mayor he was for the past 7 to 7 1/2 years). A free market should be promoted, subsidization should actually be reduced and more leverage should be given to the builders, because they care about what capitalism demands - money. In other words, if you got the money to live here, you'll stay. And if you don't work and aren't disabled, you could go rot in hell and potentially give your kid's up to the state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-12-2008, 11:57 PM
 
418 posts, read 44,026 times
Reputation: 37
''plus NYCHA has plenty of vacant units that they're too lazy to renovate anyway. why build new projects when some projects sit there with over a third of the units vacant?''

Well, I believe the absolving of section 8 altogether or by an extremely amount of wave would be necessary for the health of this place. They aren't lazy though. They aren't poor. They got plenty of cash, as the city could pretty much fund them as they wish to please. Why would they though? Think about it. In my opinion, they're craftily intelligent. If I were the director of section 8, I'd personally do what ever I could to get people out of those buildings at such a quick rate, than section 8 just wouldn't be necessary anymore. If they let these buildings destroy themselves, that is exactly what they'll be doing.

The people who live in these homes are fortunate to have a place to live. They know their hands are tied. They know they can't complain. My major is Sociology and I'm actually considering becoming a social worker (if I don't it's because of the salary), but I'm also an avid advocator for capitalism, human-growth, education and assimilation. That is exactly what these people need and someone with balls need to override the political bull to get something done. These people shouldn't expect a humane environment though. The land is worth too much, there a nuisance to the city, builders and lower-middle class and middle-class residents in other parts of their neighborhood.

t's kind of like being in a boxing ring. Is it worth it getting punched in the face a 100 times or just falling down and starting a new fight? Let these people take the challenge of making their own money and moving into apartments they actually have to pay for. If the city has to help them out by giving them a start-out job that pays like 10 dollars an hour, I'm not against it. The problem is too many have drug problems, criminal histories and can't talk like a normal human-being does, so one could make the argument that they don't deserve a chance. I notice this. I've been to some of the worst neighborhoods in this city. Do you know how common it is to see someone say ni... in those areas?

Anyone who says that doesn't deserve a job. If that were my employee, I'd fire them, even if they were black. There was actually a law proposal to ban the ''N word'' in this city, sadly because many lower-class African-American (no, not West Indians or people from Ghana) in this city can't stop themselves from discriminating against themselves. Their children do though and they're the ones suffering.

You are very right about one thing though. If so many of the rooms in these buildings are vacant, it means the necessity to build more (if NYCHA was a humane project - key word ''if'') just isn't there. New buildings are cleaner and quality. People who don't work don't deserve it. They deserve to get the worse of the worse in food and shelter, because capitalism is about one's abilities. So if 1/3 of those rooms are vacant, it either means good progress have come about or because they couldn't handle the linger of urine anymore.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2008, 12:01 AM
 
418 posts, read 44,026 times
Reputation: 37
''Don't clean it up ''

Well, the status quo to most people who live hear isn't good enough. Too many people in this place literally qualify for bracketing of a salary that is in between 5 to 10 thousand a year. That's like 15 to 20 percent of the population. For yourself, probably a middle-class or working-class person, it might not be so bad individually, but from an overview it would be. Maybe your kid's wouldn't have to share the same schools with trash or live in dangerous neighborhoods. I think we all do exaggerate about the criminal activity, because the Bronx is still not overwhelmingly bad compared to even the nice parts of other major cities. However, it's undeniable there are economic problems within portions of the population that need to be confronted. Regardless, something needs to be done, even if it's at a slower pace than I've purposed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2008, 05:00 AM
 
Location: bronx - north
473 posts, read 1,162,161 times
Reputation: 109
good lord why do people write stuff like this?

it is "there" people should be - it is their people. their has the same number of letters
most people who live "hear" = here
there's so many people - there ARE so many people holy lord

the most irritating has to be using "there" for "their" !!!!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2008, 07:05 AM
 
22 posts, read 53,085 times
Reputation: 15
I have ventured outside of Pelham Parkway, having worked all over the borough. Believe me, it's not pretty.

By "decent" people I mean people with high income, education, sense, and a good social attitude.

I am currently building a low-income building. Before, I was building another low-income building. I see these buildings spring up all over the Bronx. To qualify, you have to make less than $50,000 for a family of 4. If this is the master plan of our dear Mayor for revitalizing the Bronx, I don't see how it will work.
Yes, the housing is new, and it's not the projects. However, the people moving in are just as poor and uneducated as the rest of the neighborhood.
We have to remember that it's the people that make the borough. It doesn't matter what the buildings look like, it's the populace in these buildings, houses etc.

To me it's quite obvious that the current residents of the Bronx are not going to change their attitude and lifestyle. Therefore, outside people have to be attracted in order to make the borough into what it can be. Remember, in the 50's and 60's in you lived on Concourse meant that you made it. The Bronx CAN be better, but the city has to change its attitude towards it, stop dumping the low income crowd into the borough and has to attract upper-middle class with favorable conditions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2008, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
10,292 posts, read 18,593,986 times
Reputation: 3768
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127 View Post
''plus NYCHA has plenty of vacant units that they're too lazy to renovate anyway. why build new projects when some projects sit there with over a third of the units vacant?''

Well, I believe the absolving of section 8 altogether or by an extremely amount of wave would be necessary for the health of this place. They aren't lazy though. They aren't poor. They got plenty of cash, as the city could pretty much fund them as they wish to please. Why would they though? Think about it. In my opinion, they're craftily intelligent. If I were the director of section 8, I'd personally do what ever I could to get people out of those buildings at such a quick rate, than section 8 just wouldn't be necessary anymore. If they let these buildings destroy themselves, that is exactly what they'll be doing.

The people who live in these homes are fortunate to have a place to live. They know their hands are tied. They know they can't complain. My major is Sociology and I'm actually considering becoming a social worker (if I don't it's because of the salary), but I'm also an avid advocator for capitalism, human-growth, education and assimilation. That is exactly what these people need and someone with balls need to override the political bull to get something done. These people shouldn't expect a humane environment though. The land is worth too much, there a nuisance to the city, builders and lower-middle class and middle-class residents in other parts of their neighborhood.

t's kind of like being in a boxing ring. Is it worth it getting punched in the face a 100 times or just falling down and starting a new fight? Let these people take the challenge of making their own money and moving into apartments they actually have to pay for. If the city has to help them out by giving them a start-out job that pays like 10 dollars an hour, I'm not against it. The problem is too many have drug problems, criminal histories and can't talk like a normal human-being does, so one could make the argument that they don't deserve a chance. I notice this. I've been to some of the worst neighborhoods in this city. Do you know how common it is to see someone say ni... in those areas?

Anyone who says that doesn't deserve a job. If that were my employee, I'd fire them, even if they were black. There was actually a law proposal to ban the ''N word'' in this city, sadly because many lower-class African-American (no, not West Indians or people from Ghana) in this city can't stop themselves from discriminating against themselves. Their children do though and they're the ones suffering.

You are very right about one thing though. If so many of the rooms in these buildings are vacant, it means the necessity to build more (if NYCHA was a humane project - key word ''if'') just isn't there. New buildings are cleaner and quality. People who don't work don't deserve it. They deserve to get the worse of the worse in food and shelter, because capitalism is about one's abilities. So if 1/3 of those rooms are vacant, it either means good progress have come about or because they couldn't handle the linger of urine anymore.
somebody has to work the menial jobs in nyc....these people need places to live....it's kinda like a form of darwinism....not everyone is going to go to school and get a master's degree and live in a house. you can't force ambition, even though everyone should have it. and the projects at the end of the day, its a business like anything else. the city is still making money off these people who "should get off their ass and work". sure some people are paying $150 a month in rent but they are dealing with urine-soaked stairwells & elevators, roaches, exposed heating risers which can be dangerous to little kids, gunshots, drugs, maintenance issues....i could go on but my point is they're paying next to nothing but it comes with huge trade-offs.
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence

Forum TOS: http://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2008, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 1,015,602 times
Reputation: 209
Batja your ignorance seems to know no bounds. I will set the facts straight for you and the rest of the readers here (although most already know the facts)

1-"Decent people" (according to you) = high income, education, sense, and good social attitude. You have already lost all credibility with any reasonable person in this forum, as high income means absolutely nothing, except that you make alot of money. And same goes for education, sure you are more likely to follow the mold of a "good" person if you are highly educated, but they are not mutually exclusive. Sense and good social attitude? I have no idea what that means, nor what qualifies as a "high income" for that matter..$100,000? $500,000? $75,000?

2-YOU are not building anything. YOU are working in the industry and employed by someone who IS building affordable housing. Furthermore, the average HH income in NYC is about $42,000, so if the HH income should be about $50,000 for a family of 4, it is in fact AFFORDABLE housing, not LOW income: city workers, police, firemen, postal workers, MTA employees, and similar union-type, working class/middle income workers that make it possible for the city to function. This is not low income housing, as you clearly do not know or understand the difference.

3-There is no doubt to me that you would not see how building affordable housing, housing that specifically targets the backbone of the city, is one step in revitalizing the Bronx, and maintaining a stable and healthy city. The affordable housing is providing a valuable service to a large number of valuable city residents, as well as moving working/middle class people and families into low-income areas, diversifying the incomes of these low-income communities, establishing networks of professionals, providing demand for better amenities, and rebuilding neighborhoods with a diverse economic base, and not just a highly-segregated low-income community.

4-The people that are moving into the new affordable housing are in fact NOT nearly as "poor" as those currently in the neighborhoods, which supports my assertion that you have no idea what you are talking about. Those that are moving into these new affordable housing units are under strict scrutiny, require strict income guidelines, because this new housing is targeting specifically working/middle class of the city, not the poor, inidigent, criminals, homeless, or the utterly unemployable.

5-TO ME, someone who is a longtime resident, and not a transplant from Europe, or someone who has lived in Pelham Parkway and "worked around the borough", it IS those from the Bronx that are making the changes that are revitalizing the borough. The changes are overhwhelmingly coming from within rather than from outside parties. The affordable housing, which is not only serving the heart of the city, is a step in revitalizing these areas, one of many steps in fact. It is the grassroots, the community associations, that are cleaning up the Bronx, and have been LONG before you arrived in this country, and will be continuing to clean up and revitalize the borough LONG after you have returned to Europe, Brooklyn, or whereever else.

Unfortunately, your gross lack of knowledge and offensive statements are poisining an otherwise great thread. The borough is in fact diversifying its housing stock and economic base...not only is it targeting working/middle income residents with new, luxury affordable housing (luxury as in aesthetically appealing exterior and interiors, hardwood floors, parking, central heat/air in many, high ceilings, and amenities on the ground level), they are also building luxury housing for rent and to buy....are you aware of the $395,000-$795,000 luxury condos available in Mott Haven? Probably not.....it's called Bronx Bricks. There is also a new luxury, but more affordable condo development on the border of Mott Haven and Longwood, new 2 bed/1 bath, hardwood floors, granite counter tops, stainless steel appliances, marble baths, etc...for $217,000. Those are besides the $600,000++ brownstones and new 2/3 family housing they are building/selling. And this is just the beginning...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2008, 08:59 AM
 
22 posts, read 53,085 times
Reputation: 15
Guywithacase, if you have lived in Mott Haven all your life, I have to reveal to you that there's a huge world outside. Where people are living in nice clean neighborhoods with no drugs, gangs, uneducated unruly children, bodegas where the main commodity is a $1 cigar for making "blunts". That's the world outside of Mott Haven.

Good social attitude is not urinating on the steps of your own or anybody else's house, as well as not participating in a number of other activities. It's caring for your surroundings.

Also, if you think that $50k/year for a family of 4 is enough to live, you are grossly mistaken.
And yes, income is a big part of the equation. Because if you understand value of property and hard work you are much less likely to destroy others' property and hard work. As far as the value of education - I will not explain it if you don't understand it.

And to reveal it to you, MTA employees make a LOT of money. Just ask the guy pretending to sweep a platform at your local subway stop.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2008, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 1,015,602 times
Reputation: 209
Your gross lack of knowledge about the Bronx will not be overshadowed by your "the world outside of Mott Haven" comment. My travels have shown me that there are plenty of "nice" places outside of Mott Haven..and there are even more not so nice places as well. However I, as well as those on this board, would like to know the areas that do not have drugs, gangs, or uneducated unruly children in this city, let alone in this country....please educate us all.

1-I agree that good social attitude is not urinating on the steps of your own, or anyone else's house.....but that happens EVERYWHERE...Woodlawn is a "decent" neighborhood according to many..but those drunken Irish boys love to **** on everything when they leave the bars. How about all those maladjusted Pelham Bay/Morris Park kids...a "decent" neighborhood also...but I could not tell you the amount of street pissing and drugs those kids do. The point? It happens everywhere...that is life in the city. Someone who was a longtime resident would know that.

2-I do not believe that $50,000 a year for a family of 4 is enough to live just about anywhere, especially in NYC. However the fact remains that the average HH income in NYC IS approximately $42,000, and the city is targeting those working/middle class families that are the backbone of this city so that they can afford to live here and provide all the services and amenities you and I and everyone else enjoy. Someone who was a longtime resident would know that.

3-Income has nothing to do with understanding the value of property or hardwork. Those attributes are values instilled by family, culture, environment, and education, not how much you make. However, I do agree that if you understand the value of property and hard work you are much less likely to destroy other people's property..but that has nothing to do with income.

4-Regarding your negative "ask the guy pretending to sweep the platform" comment, you are clearly grossly negative about residents of this city, and those that work to make it a better place for you. What exactly qualifies as ALOT of money for MTA employees? You still have not qualified what high income means.

Your posts demonstrate not only your gross ignorance about the Bronx and its residents, but also misplaced anger and the "blame game" that leads you to spew nonsensical "solutions" that are not only impractical, illogical, and pointless, they show a lack of a fundamental understanding of how the city functions, why the city is in its current state, and what steps the city and the communities are taking to improve themselves.

You have no knowledge of the city, or the Bronx for that matter, yet you pose "solutions" to problems you do not understand, and answers you cannot support. Your opinions on this board are nothing more than pointless rhetoric by someone who is NOT from the Bronx and knows nothing of the residents here..so please do not assert yourself as an authority b/c you have lived in the Bronx and Brooklyn for 10 years...and have "worked around the area."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2008, 09:57 AM
 
22 posts, read 53,085 times
Reputation: 15
Well,
I believe I have an understanding of NYC. 15 years here, of them 10 in the Bronx. When I lived in Bay Ridge... What a difference compared to the Bronx! I wonder why?
In any case, an MTA employee makes over $70-90k/yr easy. Probably more. And for the amount of work they do, they're not doing bad at all.
I insist that it's the people that are making the neighborhood. And the current Bronx residents are making it what it is. So there's a dire need for outsiders to come in to influence the rest of the community. I don't see how you don't see it. This borough was beautiful at one point. It could be beautiful again. But not if the current populace stays the way it is.
This borough needs to be made attractive to people with 150-200k incomes. Young and with children. And the govt has to make all efforts to bring them in and to ensure they stay.
Yes, the Bronx is cleaner and better. But instead of making it a low-income haven, make it a middle-class haven.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:17 PM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top