U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-05-2008, 11:34 AM
 
Location: bronx - north
473 posts, read 1,144,258 times
Reputation: 109
Default How to clean up the Bronx

Everyone is an expert in their own regard, with respect to identifying the "problems" in the bronx. This is very well documented in the "the decline of the bronx" thread. Now I was wondering - if you had an unlimited budget and resources, how would you clean up the bronx? what exactly would you do to alleviate the poverty and more importantly the crime? This is assuming that you think it is possible to clean up the bronx.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-05-2008, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 911,530 times
Reputation: 209
This is an important question..and the collossal social policies that were touted as the "answer" have failed abysmally.

HOUSING

To start, I would convert 1/2 of the housing projects into co-ops, sold to the current residents virtually free, however should they choose to sell in the open market, they will keep only 20% of the profit, with the city taking 80%. At which point that unit becomes free market. The other 1/2 of the housing projects would be converted to true affordable housing, with strict income/working requirements. Those that cannot qualify for the affordable housing, choose not to work, and do not qualify for the co-op, will be given a $10,000 voucher to "buy them out" of the apt and relocate them to somewhere else in the city/country (their choice). The exterior of all projects would be redone to a softer, more contemporary facade, instead of the towering, brick, imposing bohemoths they currently are.

All new housing built will be mixed income, with some luxury housing, but NO MORE low income housing units.

GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE

I would put EVERYONE on government assistance into some kind of work, except for certain mental/physical disabilities (if you have diabetes, depression, etc..sorry..you are working). Those with NO skills will be trained to perform daily tasks, cleaning the graffiti/streets/sidewalks/parks/government buildings is a full time job, and who better than the residents currently doing nothing. Those with other skills will be putting whatever their skills are to good use.

EDUCATION

I would change the education program to 50% academic and 50% trade skills. Those that are not performing well in academics, or prefer not to go to college, can learn a trade (auto/computer/electircal/plumbing etc). Everyone that goes to HS will no longer have gym or any recreational activities, they will have military training/exercises (gym will be an afterschool function seperate from the public school education). They will be taught the lessons of sacrifice, obedience, following direction, teamwork, leadership, and it will be a required class. Those that graduate can continue on to college, work in a trade, or join the military.

Those that choose not to attend, or fail out, will be enrolled into a 24/7 day a week military style camp that will provide them a 2 year military education and experience. They cannot leave until they satisfactorily graduate, at which point they can continue their education, stay in the military, or work.

I believe the rest will work itself out on its own. As the people change, so will the area. This is my 2 cents, and they are all realistic and implementable, and not just wishful thinking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2008, 12:26 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 3,023,014 times
Reputation: 567
Default Can't believe I'm saying this

I read very carefully what you suggested, and you know its not half bad. I agree with some of your suggestions but I wouldn't give anyone $10,000 to buy them out and my reasoning is: would it go to buy materializtic things such as huge TV sets, Bose radios/CD, vacations, clothes.......or would those tenants use the money given for housing?

People need to take responsibility for their lives, can people get out of the projects....of course they can, if they made a surpreme effort to do so, but there are those that like it fine the way things are, they will whine and cry poor me and still do nothing. Todays children/teens need education more than ever, if you don't have at least a high school education, your dead in the water, at best working in McD's or Burger King. I have several kids that are in there early 20's and an 18 yr old daughter, I listen, I see and I hear, just what the kids of today are thinking, nothing like when I was growing up.

You know that saying "It Takes A Village". That's what it will take to get the Bronx back to some sort of order. People working together.

Guy at least your making sense to me.....lets hear from the others now.

PS. back in the 30's there was a program called the WPA, of course it was right after the depression, but it was a work program that basically
they built roads, bridges, worked in state parks........my late husbands father worked for he WPA to put food on the table for his 10 kids. So
any kind of work program might work......of course this isn't the 30's and people are particular about what kind of work they may or may not want
to do.

Last edited by Songbird42; 02-05-2008 at 12:30 PM.. Reason: added more information
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2008, 12:30 PM
009
 
1,118 posts, read 4,306,718 times
Reputation: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
HOUSING

To start, I would convert 1/2 of the housing projects into co-ops, sold to the current residents virtually free, however should they choose to sell in the open market, they will keep only 20% of the profit, with the city taking 80%. At which point that unit becomes free market. The other 1/2 of the housing projects would be converted to true affordable housing, with strict income/working requirements. Those that cannot qualify for the affordable housing, choose not to work, and do not qualify for the co-op, will be given a $10,000 voucher to "buy them out" of the apt and relocate them to somewhere else in the city/country (their choice). The exterior of all projects would be redone to a softer, more contemporary facade, instead of the towering, brick, imposing bohemoths they currently are.

All new housing built will be mixed income, with some luxury housing, but NO MORE low income housing units.
Like everything but the housing idea. Regarding the projects, I would just higher applicant standards. Clean out those who are the root of the problem and raise applicant standards. Anyone with children of school attending age who are failing and or not attending, excluding reasonable and verifiable excuses, should immediately be given a warning. If the problem persists, eviction. Anyone w/ a serious violent crime will or family member part of the application will be denied housing. Anyone with non-violent serious crimes, i.e. drug consumpetion and or distribution, shall be given an apartment being that they are crime free for 5 years.

And eliminate the NYCLU.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2008, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
2,806 posts, read 11,718,902 times
Reputation: 983
That is possibly the most sensible thing I've read on city data in a long time. Unfortunately we don't have anyone on the City Council with ideas that are half as good as this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
This is an important question..and the collossal social policies that were touted as the "answer" have failed abysmally.

HOUSING

To start, I would convert 1/2 of the housing projects into co-ops, sold to the current residents virtually free, however should they choose to sell in the open market, they will keep only 20% of the profit, with the city taking 80%. At which point that unit becomes free market. The other 1/2 of the housing projects would be converted to true affordable housing, with strict income/working requirements. Those that cannot qualify for the affordable housing, choose not to work, and do not qualify for the co-op, will be given a $10,000 voucher to "buy them out" of the apt and relocate them to somewhere else in the city/country (their choice). The exterior of all projects would be redone to a softer, more contemporary facade, instead of the towering, brick, imposing bohemoths they currently are.

All new housing built will be mixed income, with some luxury housing, but NO MORE low income housing units.

GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE

I would put EVERYONE on government assistance into some kind of work, except for certain mental/physical disabilities (if you have diabetes, depression, etc..sorry..you are working). Those with NO skills will be trained to perform daily tasks, cleaning the graffiti/streets/sidewalks/parks/government buildings is a full time job, and who better than the residents currently doing nothing. Those with other skills will be putting whatever their skills are to good use.

EDUCATION

I would change the education program to 50% academic and 50% trade skills. Those that are not performing well in academics, or prefer not to go to college, can learn a trade (auto/computer/electircal/plumbing etc). Everyone that goes to HS will no longer have gym or any recreational activities, they will have military training/exercises (gym will be an afterschool function seperate from the public school education). They will be taught the lessons of sacrifice, obedience, following direction, teamwork, leadership, and it will be a required class. Those that graduate can continue on to college, work in a trade, or join the military.

Those that choose not to attend, or fail out, will be enrolled into a 24/7 day a week military style camp that will provide them a 2 year military education and experience. They cannot leave until they satisfactorily graduate, at which point they can continue their education, stay in the military, or work.

I believe the rest will work itself out on its own. As the people change, so will the area. This is my 2 cents, and they are all realistic and implementable, and not just wishful thinking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2008, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 911,530 times
Reputation: 209
Thanks for the positive responses. Regarding the $10,000 "buy out" it would not be cash, but expenses paid directly for moving, 1st/last/security on a new place. No blacnk checks.

Mead: I am glad you liked my response....the city council is an interesting proposition..hmm...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2008, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Wrong side of the Hudson
508 posts, read 1,433,713 times
Reputation: 265
Guy:
Love the housing idea. I have heard the suggestion before of basically giving the residents of the property their homes. I think it would be a great idea, perhaps inspire some pride of ownership and prompt residents to clean up the mess from the inside out. I would love to see this tried somewhere although I can't picture it happening across the board in NYC until it has been tried and true on a smaller scale.

The only thing I have to wonder is if giving the owner only 20% of the sales price is enough. Is the idea that we want a mass clearing out of the projects? I would think ultimately that is what we are looking for: for those who live in the project to disband and start letting in working class people who could purchase them for a song on the open market. If we are only giving 20% of the sale to the "owner" then is that really enough to entice them to move out? I would think maybe it is not enough. I assume those projects are absolute wrecks on the inside and there will still be enough of an "element" hanging on in those places to command much of anything on the open market.

What about the idea of just giving occupants a one-time buyout of $10k-20k, clearing out all the units, and selling them back to the real working class for $100k. You could then also give occupants the option to use their buyout towards their apartment if they choose rather than just giving it away. I'm sure nothing like this will ever happen since it would be a bureaucratic nightmare but it sure would be nice to see some radical ideas about clearing up the slums presented by the powers that be.

EDIT: I see the buyout option was laid out similarly above. I personally don't care what they put the money towards. If they want to squander it that is their prerogative but they need to be made aware that that money IS their housing subsidy and they will not be getting back into the system once they spend it on crap. The city could setup advisers to help with relocation, financial advice, etc. They could pay for these buyouts by selling the projects away at a very low $100k/per apt (or something similar). I'm talking selling AS IS for $100k. No renovations. Give the purchasers a low price and blank slate to make it their own.

God I would love to see something like this happen. Wish it was plausible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2008, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 911,530 times
Reputation: 209
Jeffcon..that works for me. However, as this city is well known for bending over backwards for the poor and affording them a broad array of rights and protections, as well as the constant ramblings/rants and unfounded fears of "the rich kicking out the poor", you will be hard pressed to have any substantial and effective policy that will offer cash to get people out. If you sell this buy-out as just that..clearing out the poor to make way for anyone that is remotely of better quality/class, it will be deemed an assault on the poor and would never get approved. If it is positioned as GIVING the poor FREE homes, but they CAN, if they CHOOSE, sell to the free market, however then they will be penalized and have to forfeit 80% of the profit. It's a different spin on the same thing...but it can be sold to the public much easier.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2008, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
7,856 posts, read 13,440,663 times
Reputation: 2372
I think if the government maybe created some more incentives for investors and business owners to come into the Bronx that would have a positive effect. Maybe give them a bigger tax break. Or creating some kind of results based incentive based on how many new, key word, new jobs are created. Some things like this have been done already, but maybe it could be expanded upon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2008, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
10,142 posts, read 18,017,918 times
Reputation: 3642
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffcon0 View Post
Guy:
Love the housing idea. I have heard the suggestion before of basically giving the residents of the property their homes. I think it would be a great idea, perhaps inspire some pride of ownership and prompt residents to clean up the mess from the inside out. I would love to see this tried somewhere although I can't picture it happening across the board in NYC until it has been tried and true on a smaller scale.

The only thing I have to wonder is if giving the owner only 20% of the sales price is enough. Is the idea that we want a mass clearing out of the projects? I would think ultimately that is what we are looking for: for those who live in the project to disband and start letting in working class people who could purchase them for a song on the open market. If we are only giving 20% of the sale to the "owner" then is that really enough to entice them to move out? I would think maybe it is not enough. I assume those projects are absolute wrecks on the inside and there will still be enough of an "element" hanging on in those places to command much of anything on the open market.

What about the idea of just giving occupants a one-time buyout of $10k-20k, clearing out all the units, and selling them back to the real working class for $100k. You could then also give occupants the option to use their buyout towards their apartment if they choose rather than just giving it away. I'm sure nothing like this will ever happen since it would be a bureaucratic nightmare but it sure would be nice to see some radical ideas about clearing up the slums presented by the powers that be.

EDIT: I see the buyout option was laid out similarly above. I personally don't care what they put the money towards. If they want to squander it that is their prerogative but they need to be made aware that that money IS their housing subsidy and they will not be getting back into the system once they spend it on crap. The city could setup advisers to help with relocation, financial advice, etc. They could pay for these buyouts by selling the projects away at a very low $100k/per apt (or something similar). I'm talking selling AS IS for $100k. No renovations. Give the purchasers a low price and blank slate to make it their own.

God I would love to see something like this happen. Wish it was plausible.
most of the buildings in the projects where i hang out a lot around my way are actually structurally sound. the issues would be more cosmetic and elevator maintenance. and also maybe an electrical/plumbing upgrade. but the interiors and shells are still strong looking in my opinion.
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence

Forum TOS: http://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top