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But where does having poor parents and straight As get you? Your chances of getting into a top private university are substantially lower (see the complaints on this forum for the Ivy's disproportionately turning away POOR ASIANS).
If you have to go to CUNY your employment options are LIMITED, and ditto many other state schools unless you're in a state with excellent state universities like California.
Getting into a top public school in NYC does not mean automatic admission to an EXPENSIVE top private university.
A handful of people are admitted to Ivy's on complete scholarship, this is a minority, and if you can't the overall college bound population it's such a minority it isn't even a statistic.
Also if all public school students over night became straight A students many of them would still end up working in retail or other garbage jobs. Someone has to do them.
There you go again, running your mouth.....
Asian students do/are not admitted to Ivies or other top universities out of pure and simple discrimination, regardless of income. While some colleges are happy to make places for this or that Asian student whose parents write a fat check, bottom line there is a perceived bias against Asian students that almost mimics that of Jewish years ago; i.e. they are bright, too bright for that matter and would quickly show up white students. That GWBII not only got into an Ivy (legacy) and graduated tells much about the caliber of some students.
Fact of the matter is most top universities do not need more donations from alumni as their endowments are bursting. What the Ivies are deeply worried about is one of the few bastions of power they still control being over run by a demographic smarter than they. Ivies are happy to accept blacks, Latinos/Hispanics especially from poor backgrounds. They get Brownie points for various affirmative action quotas and quite frankly neither demographic presents any real threat to the status quo. Blacks are never going to become more than a small minority at Harvard no matter how far that place bends over to accept. OTOH far more Asian students have the academics, test scores and other criteria to easily make admissions.
So if you don't think it's test prep...are you arguing that Asians are inherently superior or something?
What it comes down to in my opinion, is how seriously a kid takes school throughout his/her K-12 years, and beyond. I think Asian kids have more social/parental pressure to do well. White kids probably don't have as much parental pressure on average, but enough to take school at least somewhat seriously.
First of all not all Asians do well in school. I should know my sibling was one of them. There is a huge chunk that can't do well no matter what they do, but I guess the chunk that does well is able to mask for all their failures. And guess what my sibling wasnt given the same racial privilege when he applied to schools like other minorities. I don't know about any special culture or whatever because my dad didn't even finish 2nd grade and was uncultured. But as a kid being a student was just what you do. You go home watch the Disney afternoon, Growing pains then you do your homework each and every single weekday.
Last edited by bumblebyz; 03-10-2016 at 06:05 AM..
Asian students do/are not admitted to Ivies or other top universities out of pure and simple discrimination, regardless of income. While some colleges are happy to make places for this or that Asian student whose parents write a fat check, bottom line there is a perceived bias against Asian students that almost mimics that of Jewish years ago; i.e. they are bright, too bright for that matter and would quickly show up white students. That GWBII not only got into an Ivy (legacy) and graduated tells much about the caliber of some students.
Fact of the matter is most top universities do not need more donations from alumni as their endowments are bursting. What the Ivies are deeply worried about is one of the few bastions of power they still control being over run by a demographic smarter than they. Ivies are happy to accept blacks, Latinos/Hispanics especially from poor backgrounds. They get Brownie points for various affirmative action quotas and quite frankly neither demographic presents any real threat to the status quo. Blacks are never going to become more than a small minority at Harvard no matter how far that place bends over to accept. OTOH far more Asian students have the academics, test scores and other criteria to easily make admissions.
Asians are indeed admitted to Ivies. Of course if your parents are top ranking government officials from China or your parents own a multi million dollar business in the US, you will be ACCEPTED.
Oh but you can't seem to understand that the Ivies have huge endowments, they are always spending massive amounts of money. So they need MORE DONATIONS ALWAYS. Much of the money donated to these universities is earmarked to support professors, certain academic programs, administrators, building new buildings, acquiring new real estate, etc. The majority of money is not donated to support poor kids at these schools.
Therefore a poor but "smart" student of any race (particularly) in large numbers is USELESS to them.
Poor students are in large numbers are useless to top universities in other ways.
You go to a top university because one important way people get jobs is via social connections. If your parents make the minimum wage, you have no connections to be of use to anyone. Be serious.
There isn't racial discrimination against Asians at the Ivy League. There is socioeconomic discrimination against Asians, but this socioeconomic discrimination EXTENDS to ALL RACES.
Something you can't seem to accept is that there is no free lunch. I don't care if you have perfect SAT scores, if you can't pay for college you should not automatically expect others to pay for you. If you can't afford to pay for a top private university you may have to settle for CUNY (****ty school) and you do get what you pay for.
Ivies are not happy to accept Blacks or Hispanics who are poor. Most of the Blacks and Hispanics at Ivies do not come from poor backgrounds, and Blacks and Hispanics are minorities on campus anyway.
That GWB got into an Ivy does say a lot. Money and privilege matter enormously. THAT is the real reason people go to Ivies, to be around more affluent and connected people. I'd rather hang out with someone from the Bush family than someone who has poor parents. In fact one reason why tuition is so high at top universities is to attract wealthier applicants, and push away poorer applicants.
Btw I don't have to run my mouth dude. You run yours. I attended two separate Ivies, so I know the students who attend the Ivy League very well, and I know the demographics and the socioeconomics behind it. All you can do is go on your base speculation and fantasy.
Asian students do/are not admitted to Ivies or other top universities out of pure and simple discrimination, regardless of income. While some colleges are happy to make places for this or that Asian student whose parents write a fat check, bottom line there is a perceived bias against Asian students that almost mimics that of Jewish years ago; i.e. they are bright, too bright for that matter and would quickly show up white students. That GWBII not only got into an Ivy (legacy) and graduated tells much about the caliber of some students.
Fact of the matter is most top universities do not need more donations from alumni as their endowments are bursting. What the Ivies are deeply worried about is one of the few bastions of power they still control being over run by a demographic smarter than they. Ivies are happy to accept blacks, Latinos/Hispanics especially from poor backgrounds. They get Brownie points for various affirmative action quotas and quite frankly neither demographic presents any real threat to the status quo. Blacks are never going to become more than a small minority at Harvard no matter how far that place bends over to accept. OTOH far more Asian students have the academics, test scores and other criteria to easily make admissions.
I think that's exactly the point. It doesn't matter if you don't get in, it should only matter if you were given consideration regardless of things that you can never ever control like your race.
Asians are indeed admitted to Ivies. Of course if your parents are top ranking government officials from China or your parents own a multi million dollar business in the US, you will be ACCEPTED.
Oh but you can't seem to understand that the Ivy have huge endowments, they are always spending massive amounts of money. So they need MORE DONATIONS ALWAYS.
Therefore a poor but "smart" student of any race (particularly) in large numbers is USELESS to them.
Poor students are in large numbers are useless to top universities in other ways.
You go to a top university because one important way people get jobs is via social connections. If your parents make the minimum wage, you have no connections to be of use to anyone. Be serious.
There isn't racial discrimination against Asians at the Ivy League. There is socioeconomic discrimination against Asians, but this socioeconomic discrimination EXTENDS to ALL RACES.
Something you can't seem to accept is that there is no free lunch. I don't care if you have perfect SAT scores, if you can't pay for college you should not automatically expect others to pay for you. If you can't afford to pay for a top private university you may have to settle for CUNY (****ty school) and you do get what you pay for.
Ivies are not happy to accept Blacks or Hispanics who are poor. Most of the Blacks and Hispanics at Ivies do not come from poor backgrounds, and Blacks and Hispanics are minorities on campus anyway.
That GWB got into an Ivy does say a lot. Money and privilege matter enormously. THAT is the real reason people go to Ivies, to be around more affluent and connected people. I'd rather hang out with someone from the Bush family than someone who has poor parents. In fact one reason why tuition is so high at top universities is to attract wealthier applicants, and push away poorer applicants.
Btw I don't have to run my mouth dude. You run yours. I attended two separate Ivies, so I know the students who attend the Ivy League very well, and I know the demographics and the socioeconomics behind it. All you can do is go on your base speculation and fantasy.
How do you account for the fact that Asians need to score 400 more point on average on the SATs than blacks to get into an Ivy. I used to do SAT math tutoring, I can tell you if I had ten students ten of them would not be able to make that sort of improvement. I guess they found the magic handicap. By now all Asians already know there is a Asian quota or some sort. Whether they acknowledge to you or not doesn't matter. But years later this discrimination will not be forgotten. I will tell my kids they will tell their kids and all my Asian friends will tell their kids.
I think that's exactly the point. It doesn't matter if you don't get in, it should only matter if you were given consideration regardless of things that you can never ever control like your race.
Welcome to reality.
For people in academia, those wanting to become professors have to do a lot more than get good grades (getting good grades is important). They have to have done major research that has been peer reviewed, gotten published in academic journals that are respected in the field, maybe published relevant books, etc.
Just because you got a high SAT score alone does not impress admission committees.
I know a Latino kid from the Bronx School of Science who had articles published in the New York Times when he was still a HIGH SCHOOL student. This young man got into Cornell and got a degree in English. He was an exception candidate and in addition to wealthy people the Ivy League looks for exception candidates.
Whenever the discussions come up, there always people, saying why can't black and Hispanics be more like Asians? Sometimes the discussion takes on an almost gleeful tone of superiority. The advice to follow the Asian model is oddly not taken by whites themselves though. White parents generally reject this educational model, so I find it particularly annoying when white posters take this attitude of --why can't they be more like them.
So their advice to follow the Asian way of doing things is limited to certain people and only in education. I worked in an office full of Asian H1B visa holders who worked every Saturday and got paid less than their American co-workers (6 days a week seems to be relatively common in many Asian countries). But I tell you, I never once heard a white person say -- "the real problem is that we are paid too much and don't work hard enough..." Never...
Increased test prep is a good start, but can only be part of the solution. I'm not advocating lowering standards, but what about increasing integration in lower grades to ensure everyone access to quality education? I'm sure rates of single parenthood are also a big part of this, but have no idea what to do about that.
Whenever the discussions come up, there always people, saying why can't black and Hispanics be more like Asians? Sometimes the discussion takes on an almost gleeful tone of superiority. The advice to follow the Asian model is oddly not taken by whites themselves though. White parents generally reject this educational model, so I find it particularly annoying when white posters take this attitude of --why can't they be more like them.
So their advice to follow the Asian way of doing things is limited to certain people and only in education. I worked in an office full of Asian H1B visa holders who worked every Saturday and got paid less than their American co-workers (6 days a week seems to be relatively common in many Asian countries). But I tell you, I never once heard a white person say -- "the real problem is that we are paid too much and don't work hard enough..." Never...
Increased test prep is a good start, but can only be part of the solution. I'm not advocating lowering standards, but what about increasing integration in lower grades to ensure everyone access to quality education? I'm sure rates of single parenthood are also a big part of this, but have no idea what to do about that.
Just a little rant...carry on...
Trust me there are tons of whites that work hard. It's just that they are in the business side making a lot more money. And because they're what you call more well rounded they work hard from all angles to advance themselves which is fair game in this rat race.
As for integration it's not even all about race. Parents try everything within their means to get their kids into schools that had students that traditionally performed better. Segregation is just a byproduct, but that is definitely not always the case. You should know too, the actions of you and your son did exactly that. But since you're an underrepresented minority it's not viewed that way.
How do you account for the fact that Asians need to score 400 more point on average on the SATs than blacks to get into an Ivy. I used to do SAT math tutoring, I can tell you if I had ten students ten of them would not be able to make that sort of improvement. I guess they found the magic handicap. By now all Asians already know there is a Asian quota or some sort. Whether they acknowledge to you or not doesn't matter. But years later this discrimination will not be forgotten. I will tell my kids they will tell their kids and all my Asian friends will tell their kids.
You guys accuse Blacks of making excuses, when it seems like you are full of excuses yourselves.
Any Asian with the ability to sufficiently write checks (and who has the sufficient academic and work history background) is going to have no problem getting into a top school.
So poor people know they likely won't be accepted? Wow, is this a surprise? LOL You need to preface your statement you will tell your POOR ASIAN friends. The wealthy ones can get in. Or you guys can stop whining.
Here is Shaan Patel. Indian American. He got a perfect score on the SAT. Perfect. And found himself rejected at every Ivy (he had motel Indian parents). So he got into UCLA, got his bachelor's and entered medical school. He started his own SAT tutoring company. His company expanded and he became interested in business. So decided he wanted to get an Ivy League MBA. He got accepted into YALE.
He has said Yale has been instrumental in helping his business grow. Patel proved himself an EXCEPTIONAL CANDIDATE by ANYONE's STANDARDS. Of course he got into YALE's MBA program. It's rather obvious why Yale admitted him.
Whenever the discussions come up, there always people, saying why can't black and Hispanics be more like Asians? Sometimes the discussion takes on an almost gleeful tone of superiority. The advice to follow the Asian model is oddly not taken by whites themselves though. White parents generally reject this educational model, so I find it particularly annoying when white posters take this attitude of --why can't they be more like them.
So their advice to follow the Asian way of doing things is limited to certain people and only in education. I worked in an office full of Asian H1B visa holders who worked every Saturday and got paid less than their American co-workers (6 days a week seems to be relatively common in many Asian countries). But I tell you, I never once heard a white person say -- "the real problem is that we are paid too much and don't work hard enough..." Never...
Increased test prep is a good start, but can only be part of the solution. I'm not advocating lowering standards, but what about increasing integration in lower grades to ensure everyone access to quality education? I'm sure rates of single parenthood are also a big part of this, but have no idea what to do about that.
Just a little rant...carry on...
This is advice is only given at k-12 education. University education is impacted by your social connections, by having the proper relationship with advisors and professors who can write letters of recommendation, by research, by work experience and other forms of work (publications, research) that can get you into a good grad school. At the university level networking is important and universities have alumnae networks people are encouraged to attend.
Don't get me wrong, good grades ARE important, but so are social connections and MONEY as the education will have to be paid for (university) somehow.
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Or you guys can stop whining.
