My Rant: real estate, the middle class, and the "next" neighborhoods. (Ridge: apartment, loans)

[holden125]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

those that had the vision to buy in areas 10-15 years ago that basically sucked are those that are reaping the rewards now and buying places for top dollar and driving up prices for everyone else. Depends on what is important to you

The problem is that they had to live in areas that "basically sucked" for 10-15 years, which for many people is not worth it for what is essentially a crapshoot.

[Guywithacause]

I agree...but what is the alternative? We have already agreed that the places that are most appealing are far out of the range of us normal folk (and we are the majority)...so you either:

1-Give up and just pay high rents (and those will keep climbing) to live in the neighborhoods of your choice. This may include one or many roommates still.
2-Give up and just move out of the city to the 80% of places in this country that are affordable.
3-Buy into a place that is a crap shoot, and staying for the long haul. Sacrifice, compromise, and tolerance are virtues many are short of these days, except those that are successful of course.

Any other alternatives I might be missing? I see 2 that pretty much give up on the dream....and 1 that takes committment, work, patience, and a longer horizon. If you dont plan on staying in the city then the choices are quite clear....if you plan to stay for the long haul, as I do....there is only 1 choice.

[holden125]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

I agree...but what is the alternative? We have already agreed that the places that are most appealing are far out of the range of us normal folk (and we are the majority)...

if you plan to stay for the long haul, as I do....there is only 1 choice.

I agree for the most part. I just don't think you can say categorially that the Bronx is the only option becasue it seems that there are places in the southern half of Brooklyn and scattered around Queens that are priced well below Manhattan/Park Slope/Brooklyn Heights but are not dangerous, dirty, etc. I know there are neighborhoods of all stripes in the Bronx and I don't know how they compare cost-wise to the places I'm talking about, so maybe we're just quibbling over what counts as "affordable." It just seems there are some options outside the Bronx boro limits without shipping off to North Carolina or whatever.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

I agree...but what is the alternative? We have already agreed that the places that are most appealing are far out of the range of us normal folk (and we are the majority)...so you either:

1-Give up and just pay high rents (and those will keep climbing) to live in the neighborhoods of your choice. This may include one or many roommates still.
2-Give up and just move out of the city to the 80% of places in this country that are affordable.
3-Buy into a place that is a crap shoot, and staying for the long haul. Sacrifice, compromise, and tolerance are virtues many are short of these days, except those that are successful of course.

Any other alternatives I might be missing? I see 2 that pretty much give up on the dream....and 1 that takes committment, work, patience, and a longer horizon. If you dont plan on staying in the city then the choices are quite clear....if you plan to stay for the long haul, as I do....there is only 1 choice.

which is exactly the reason why i have no interest in living anywhere else but far rockaway....hopefully in another 15 years we'll be the south beach of nyc, and i'll be drinking mai tais on beach 67th street.

[Ace Rock]

A lot of Manhattan real estate is ****ed because they're paid for by "daddy".

Daddy makes $100,000 as a bank VP or insurance exec in Kansas, where a 3000 sq. ft. house in a good neighborhood costs $250,000, hence daddy has lots of money left over.

Daddy's princess watches shows like Sex & the City that glamorizes NYC, so she moves to NYC at 23 and guilts dad, who works all the time, into getting her an apartment in NYC.

Hence, Manhattan is borough full of 23 year old girls who make $23,000 as copy assistants who live in $3000/mo. apartments. And everyone else's rents go up.

[scatman]

Originally Posted by Ace Rock

A lot of Manhattan real estate is ****ed because they're paid for by "daddy".

Daddy makes $100,000 as a bank VP or insurance exec in Kansas, where a 3000 sq. ft. house in a good neighborhood costs $250,000, hence daddy has lots of money left over.

Daddy's princess watches shows like Sex & the City that glamorizes NYC, so she moves to NYC at 23 and guilts dad, who works all the time, into getting her an apartment in NYC.

Hence, Manhattan is borough full of 23 year old girls who make $23,000 as copy assistants who live in $3000/mo. apartments. And everyone else's rents go up.

I know it's easy to say Daddy and Sex in the city, but to be honest, I don't think these come near explaining Manhattan real estate!

[Guywithacause]

Holden I agree that there are still deals to be had in certian outlying parts of Brooklyn and Queens...but my post was saying overall..the Bronx is clearly the final frontier.

[keith talent]

Gawd, are we priced out forever in Queens already? Yikes! For myself, I'm afraid to even breathe the names of the nabes I might consider living in outside Brooklyn.

Bronx, still no thonks. Couldn't risk my kids growing up Yankee fans! Assuming they even learn English and manage not to get hit by a stray bullet before they reach adulthood, which also might be big achievements.

The whole thing is horrendous, I agree with jeffcon and the other ranters. But the time is coming for those who have patience and a little cash, I think. I could afford a 2-bed (though we need 3) in a nabe I would live in, but I expect it all to look better everywhere come this time next year. Let the dreamers hold on to their wish prices thru a dead spring "selling season" and see what happens. Even feel a little hope when I scan rents on craigslist these days ... just say no to stoopid prices, everybody, and spread the word, I say.

[jeffcon0]

Originally Posted by Ace Rock

A lot of Manhattan real estate is ****ed because they're paid for by "daddy".

Daddy makes $100,000 as a bank VP or insurance exec in Kansas, where a 3000 sq. ft. house in a good neighborhood costs $250,000, hence daddy has lots of money left over.

Daddy's princess watches shows like Sex & the City that glamorizes NYC, so she moves to NYC at 23 and guilts dad, who works all the time, into getting her an apartment in NYC.

Hence, Manhattan is borough full of 23 year old girls who make $23,000 as copy assistants who live in $3000/mo. apartments. And everyone else's rents go up.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's funny, at my company the people who live in Manhattan are in customer service making $40k and those who make substantially more live in NJ, the boroughs, or LI. To play on a stereotype, they are all very "Sex and the City" type of girls. They seem to have far more disposable income and live far more "fabulous" lives than those of us who make significantly more money than them. How could this be? I think you just answered that question, Ace.

KeithTalent:
I think you make a good point about the rents on Craigslist being an indicator of what is going on here. I read a lot about real estate and have seen the shift in the last 6 months on various blogs, forums, and websites from an attitude where everything seems peachy to the general community and commentors thinking everything is grossly overpriced. I think this general doom and gloom sentiment is going to really start spreading from the online world to the real world when the spring selling season hits and seller's expectations come back to reality.

[BXGEAR]

The Bronx is absolutely the final frontier. However, Queens is holding up pretty well. Just as long as the "newcomers" dont get too comfortable; they'll be outta here after graduate school. Astoria and Sunnyside North have many yuppies moving in. It starts to die down halfway across Woodside at 61st St.

And the problem is DADDYS MONEY. Very true. Now, if the single college student were to support his/herself, then that's a different story. Instead of Astoria, they would have to settle on Flushing or Corona.

Bringing 'Daddys money' ruins the equilibrium of a community.