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You know, I really should just ignore you since you're making it very clear that you are only here to irritate me with your judgmental responses. But for the sake of clarification, since I think you misunderstood me, I'm talking about our whole family moving there, as in taking the relocation expenses and moving to Allentown as soon as I get hired.
And you can leave my kids out of it. Before I returned to school, when we decided to have kids, I was a machinist making damn good money for this area doing interesting work. I had no intentions of returning to school, being a machinist was not my job, it was my career and I intended to stick with it. Then I realized that in 25 years I'll be making less or equal to what I could make my first year out of college, and I'll be lucky if I make it to retirement age without getting injured or laid off before I can cash out my pension.
As I've said, we're not struggling. We're getting by just fine. When I was bringing in my income, we didn't live extravagantly either. It's just the way we are, as a family. I grew up poor, my wife grew up in public housing in Norwalk, CA. We understand the value of a dollar and what is really important in life. I also know a good opportunity when I see one.
This salary is about the maximum I could have made at my last job, assuming I stayed there for 15-20 years. And it will only go up from here. When I finish school, I can transfer to a higher paying job within the company. Or I can leave the company with 4-5 years of practical work experience and demand at least the same salary somewhere outside of the city.
Don't tell me I'm blinded by the money, because I'm not. Once again, you don't know me, you really don't know anything about me to be passing these judgments about me. I'm thinking about what's best for my family in the long term. Personally, for me, I could give a damn about money, luxuries, living some kind of extravagant lifestyle surrounded by lots of stuff to see and do. I'm more concerned with making sure that my kids don't have to worry about going to college, making sure that surprise medical bills don't bankrupt our family, making sure my wife doesn't have to worry about what we'll do if her car breaks down.
I'm interested to find out exactly what makes you so qualified to pass these judgments, seeing as you have no idea what life is like in the area I currently live in, what kind of money you need to live in this area, and what kind of job opportunities in the career I'm trying to get into are available here. We were already planning to move once I finished school, either to Philly, NYC burbs, or Chicago. This is just sooner than planned for. Again, life happens.
I'm glad life's never thrown you a curveball and that you've got it all figured out. I'm happy for you, really. You're so clever that I'm sure even if it did, you'd know instantly, without deliberation, what the right thing to do is. But that's your life. So don't pretend you know a ****ing thing about me or mine.
advice: read the negative comments, consider them carefully, but don't respond.
You are looking at this whole situation in a very immature manner.
Just so you know, I know the Leigh Valley area very well, I lived in Jersey 30 min East of there for quite some time. I've done that bus commute. From Jersey it took 2 1/2 hours on the regular each way in the AM and PM due to traffic. I did it for a temp job and was never so relieved when it was over. It sucks the life and energy out of you.
I'm not going to be without a license or a car forever. I've got a reliable vehicle and I get my license back in November. And I've made the drive during rush hour, I know how long it takes.
When I get my car, as I've said before, I'll be dodging the tunnel and parking mess by parking in Harrison, NJ and taking the PATH train over. I'll get off at WTC and go 4 stops by subway to the Houston street station. Walk half a block and I'm at work.
Will the commute suck? Yeah. Will the time away from home be bad? Sure. But I was working five 10hr days with an hour commute each way as a machinist. That's a 12 hour day too, for a lot less money, even considering the cost of commuting and the increase in housing costs. We've done it before, and we were fine.
Keep in mind that the negatives are also coming from people with real life experience with the situation you are describing and the questions you are asking. Just because they are giving you the negatives about your situation doesn't mean you're being attacked, and you shouldn't exactly expect joyous responses to your nonchalant attitude towards drunk driving. Maybe they view that differently where you're from, in the NY area, it's taken very seriously. Toning down the language would help as well, not really tolerated here at these boards, and it just makes you seem more immature.
In regards to the license situation, you will be absolutely floored once you see what you're going to pay in insurance with a DUI on your record. You're looking at $400-500 a month for insurance. I would absolutely not drive/park/PATH/subway to get into Manhattan. It's going to take even longer than the bus to do that. You have to pay to park at the train stations anyway.
Keep in mind that the negatives are also coming from people with real life experience with the situation you are describing and the questions you are asking. Just because they are giving you the negatives about your situation doesn't mean you're being attacked, and you shouldn't exactly expect joyous responses to your nonchalant attitude towards drunk driving. Maybe they view that differently where you're from, in the NY area, it's taken very seriously. Toning down the language would help as well, not really tolerated here at these boards, and it just makes you seem more immature.
In regards to the license situation, you will be absolutely floored once you see what you're going to pay in insurance with a DUI on your record. You're looking at $400-500 a month for insurance. I would absolutely not drive/park/PATH/subway to get into Manhattan. It's going to take even longer than the bus to do that. If you're ready for a long commute your best bet is public transportation.
DUI isn't viewed differently and I don't have a nonchalant attitude about it. It cost me 5 large and losing my license for a year. And despite how I feel about my personal situation, I know that _driving while intoxicated_ isn't something to be taken lightly. The problem I have is that I wasn't intoxicated. I've taken cold medicine and been more intoxicated. I passed the field sobriety test. I was fine.
DUI is a money maker for municipalities and the danger is often overstated. Did you know that after lowering the legal limit from .10 to .08 there was no effect on the amount of alcohol related accidents and casualties? The only effect was more people getting nailed for DUI, more money for the insurance companies and municipalities and lawyers. I blew a .11, and that could have been inaccurate because my blood test only came up at a .09.
Was it wrong to get behind the wheel? Sure, I was over the legal limit. The law is the law. Was it a willful, reckless action taken without care for others? No. I drank responsibly, I waited well over an hour after taking my last drink. And I wasn't drunk, not even close. Had I been, I wouldn't have been driving because I value life and would never endanger others or myself like that.
And insurance in Allentown isn't going to cost me $400 to $500 for my car. I was paying $60 a month before the DUI. I don't have or want full coverage. Just liability. It will double, maybe even go a few dollars more than double, but nowhere close to $400. And I've already driven, park, path to manhattan before, I know how long it takes.
DUI isn't viewed differently and I don't have a nonchalant attitude about it. It cost me 5 large and losing my license for a year. And despite how I feel about my personal situation, I know that _driving while intoxicated_ isn't something to be taken lightly. The problem I have is that I wasn't intoxicated. I've taken cold medicine and been more intoxicated. I passed the field sobriety test. I was fine.
DUI is a money maker for municipalities and the danger is often overstated. Did you know that after lowering the legal limit from .10 to .08 there was no effect on the amount of alcohol related accidents and casualties? The only effect was more people getting nailed for DUI, more money for the insurance companies and municipalities and lawyers. I blew a .11, and that could have been inaccurate because my blood test only came up at a .09.
Was it wrong to get behind the wheel? Sure, I was over the legal limit. The law is the law. Was it a willful, reckless action taken without care for others? No. I drank responsibly, I waited well over an hour after taking my last drink. And I wasn't drunk, not even close. Had I been, I wouldn't have been driving because I value life and would never endanger others or myself like that.
And again, I'm really glad that everyone else on here is perfect and has never made a mistake. I really wish I could have gone through life without having made mistakes or lapses in judgment.
Then again, maybe I don't. Maybe I'm happy with myself and who I am and don't give a crap what you people think about my character.
You stated you had 6 drinks that night and then got behind the wheel after an hour. People are not going to take that lightly, there are plenty of people who will consider that very irresponsible, and I'm sure if you talked to families of people killed by drunk drivers, they would say they ""only had a few" or "I wasn't really drunk" as well (by the way, the blood test always comes back lower, because they draw the blood quite some time after you blow the Breathalyzer).
No one is saying they are perfect, we are letting you know that the DUI is going to affect you financially/jobwise/apartment hunting even after you get your license back.
I'm not interested in talking about the effects of DUI or passing any judgments, but you asked for people's take on your job prospect and in between the other stuff you're getting it. I agree with the people who say that the money will go incredibly fast in this area, between taxes and the high cost of everything. I know people who make 40K in York who do better than people making 60K in New York. The commute is rough; you say you know how long it takes but you have not done it every day at the morning rush. I do think you're underestimating the time and the grind. You seem pretty determined to give this a shot, so I won't flat out suggest not to, but I will ask you to consider seriously the warnings of people on here who know what they're talking about. That's why you asked, right?
dude, I've dodged curveballs all my life. I had 2 children (unplanned) when I was in my 20's. I can honestly say that was a huge mistake in my life. Once I realized that it was a mistake to have children so irresponsibly I took control of my life to make up for that mistake and vowed to make better decisions. I did not drop out of HS (although I did drop out of College and later went back). I did not go out and get a DUI. Get a grip. EVERYTHING you do at any moment matters now.
When i needed to get out of the hood i hustled my ass off. I didnt just move my children out, i bought a nice size house in a better neighborhood and moved ALL OF MY IMMEDIATE FAMILY OUT.
I sacrificed my true career aspirations (at the height of my success- which i believe was a blessing as it enabled me to purchase a home so young) to work a more stable job with benefits just to put family first. Now my son is in college- my daughter is not far behind. That "stable" job i subjected myself to turned into a career. 11 years now as a manager at a Fortune500 company with unlimited growth potential and 800 offices across the country.
IMHO, get your family to a safe, stable environment- that is most important above all. Focus on getting your degree (speed up the process by taking more classes).
Your education will arm you.
That job in NY is great. Its luck and god knows we all need alittle luck sometimes. If you think 4-5 hour commute or whatever a day is doable, then by all means do it.
Just beware.
This is NY- you can't get anywhere here leaving at 5. Shoot, even 6. You run into a security issue, or a nasty virus on the system, a maintanence issue that requires you to run utilities or a patch after hours, etc... you'll be hard pressed to get home afterwards. I see what my IT guys go through. Days/weeks can go by with no issue. Then one day they are here overnight. Or they need to get in at 8 b4 everyone else is here. It can get crazy.
good luck to you man- you have heart. thats neccesary in todays world. just try not to make mistakes that will set you any further behind and don't try to jump ahead too fast. find your lane and play it well. be excellent wherever you work. get your degree. do more then you have too. stay later then your competitor. come in earlier then your competitor. be proactive. Thats how you get ahead.
Last edited by BK2Westchester; 02-15-2008 at 11:11 AM..
Things are playing out a little differently than I thought.
I was looking on craigslist at the Lehigh Valley area in PA, which is about an hour drive from the PATH line, 1 1/2 to the city by car (not counting traffic). Found a NICE loft apartment, 1600sq/ft for $1150/mo that is pet friendly, within walking distance to daily buses heading to NYC (which is way cheaper than taking the train and comparable to commuting by car), 10 mins from lots of shopping and very comparable to the type of neighborhoods we're used to living in.
While my wife still doesn't want to move, she's giving better consideration to it now. I now think that moving to this area would be the ideal situation. It's right in the middle of where we are now and NYC, which makes for an easier, cheaper visit back home to see family and friends. Allentown is a pretty nice area, with lots of stuff to do including Crocodile Rock Cafe which has plenty of good live music playing there regularly. Lehigh Valley area also has plenty of hospitals for her to find work, and while she is home with the newborn I will be able to pay all the bills with money left over. In 3 years when my oldest goes to school, we won't have to start scrambling around for a private school, because the public schools are decent.
The nicest thing is that there are plenty of nice houses in the area in the 200k range that would be very affordable for us once she returns to work. Between the two of us we would be pulling in close to 100k yearly, and we would not only be getting by but living very well with that kind of money.
I'll keep you guys updated since things seem to change daily, but so far this is looking like our most viable option. She saw the pics of the apartment and when I broke down how much everything would cost and how much better off financially we would be, she lit up in a way that she hasn't since I got this job offer.
be very careful with the whole commute to nyc from PA thing. i've never done it myself, but most people ive spoken to put that commute at WELL over 2 hours, EACH WAY. and if you're working in the IT industry, youre working the straight 9-5 which is when the roads are most crowded.
Do you really want to get out of bed at 5am to leave for work at 6am to GET to work at 8:30 or later (and this is when its not snowing, raining, jackknifed tractor trailor, etc)
I truly understand why you want to do this, as an IT director, im more intrigued with someone with practical on the job experience then some guy straight outta college, but you are looking at 4-6 hours a day in just commuting. add on your 8-9 hour workday and that can be very very draining.
i know you think you will study and what not on the bus ride, and you may, but ask yourself how long that will last. On top of that, when will you find time to go to school?
You are going through what the lower/middle and middle class new yorkers are going through. Where can i live, OUTSIDE of nyc, with a great quality of life, while still working in nyc to make that nice $$$, and a decent commute.
For a family of 4 with a stay at home mom.. i hope you have lots of luck
It is probably doable if you look hard. It's not difficult to find apartments in Jersey City or Bayonne for $1500 or so for a 2 bedroom. Won't be "the ritz" but doable. I've heard that Bayonne has ok schools but have no first-hand experience.
Not sure what the double taxation thing was that you were talking about. If you work in NJ you're taxed there, and if you work in NY you're taxed there. Doesn't matter where you live.
I would do a "fact-finding" trip before you commit. Make your friend's company pay for it. See some apartments. Check out grocery prices and public transportation options, etc. No internet board can take the place of first-hand research.
The cost of living in NYC has become so high, I struggle to make it on $70k/yr and I am single with no dependents.
I think the timing is off here. Keep researching and saving money and see what happens (to the job market, housing market, and otherwise) in the future.
Good luck!
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