When the Bronx was burning. (Camden, Rose: for rent, rooftop, dangerous)

[rlrl]

the pic # 1 you posted on 2/14/08, Fordham bedford, where exactly was that? It looks like Valentine or Briggs and 201 street but I can't be sure

Rachel--this may have been answered already, but 170th street and Jerome Ave was horrible, absolutely when we used to go to the stadium in the 70's we took Jerome from the X Bronx to the parking lots on River and i think 170th and Jerome was the absolute worst sight. Worse than above, worse than below. Abandoned buildings, kids fighting in empty lots, the sound of someone being stabbed, a drug addicted woman running past our car, we parked and ate our sandwiches in the car before the game, and i remember dad, who was used to the area, was scared himself. After the game about 20 cars had their tires slashed, save ours. It was a game in July of 1977. After that we looked around the area to see the areas where my folks lived around Findlay and 170th street, Monroe and 173rd, and most of it was a burned out wasteland. And to top it off dad told us "if you think THIS is bad I'll take you to the south bronx and show you REAL disaster".

What gets me was that 170th and Jerome was easily the nastiest looking corner I had EVER seen, and then my dad tells me that there's no comparison to the SOUTH bronx nabes of Simpson St, etc. I mean, how much worse could it have been?

I remember some documentary earlier that year about the sharp decline of the Morris Heights area--a woman from Ireland who was living in a Davidson Avenue building for decades had her belongings stolen by thugs as she was being interviewed by the TV station and on her way moving out of the bldg.

[Rachael84]

So were there no stores really at all on that corner? The buildings in that area look like they've been there for a while. I wish I could see pictures. Nowadays it doesn't sound like it was ever that bad then. I believe you of course, I'm just curious to see if there are pictures out there of that area.

[rlrl]

to that area in 1993 and many of those tenements were destroyed and in their place were rehabs or empty lots. In 1998 after a yankee game the area looked quite different than it did 20 years prior. Not a 'nice" area but certainly better. In the 70's jerome had some automobile showrooms which were looted during the 1977 blackout. I don't recall any stores on jerome and 170th other than maybe warehouses, parking lots. Strangely when jerome turned into River Ave further down it wasn't as bad(maybe closer to the stadium). But I always remembered on that corner it was an entire row of burned out tenements with empty lots, kids fighting

[danabbw67]

We lived on East 175th Street & Prospect Avenue (near Crotona Park), and I was born in 1967. I was too late to see urban blight firsthand but witnessed the aftermath. As a youngster, I couldn't understand why there were so many burned buildings and vacant lots around me. My parents were struggling with their own issues so I just believed everyone lived that way...seeing ruin around them. Eventually, I learned about how NYC fell into financial ruins and other factors involved.

When my family moved to St. Mary's Projects in 1977, we lived in a 19th floor apartment (actually my parents are still there)...and you can see devastation for as far as the eye can see.

It's all different now... with middle- to low-income homes (HUD), new businesses, and dilapidated buildings reconstructed and livable again. The Bronx has come a long way since the 1970's... but it's still not where it can be in terms of resources (health) and education.

I moved back to the Bronx in August for the first time in nearly 20 years. I'm even considering looking at real estate near Yankee Stadium since that area is undergoing a major upswing.

Hope this helps!

By the way, if anyone attended CS44 from 1973 to 1977 or St. Anselm's from 1977 to 1981... give me a holla!

[bmwguydc]

This was a very bad era for the city as a whole, but The Bronx was destroyed in so many respects. I was not alive when it was occurring, but I know people who were teaching in the South Bronx and Harlem during this era, and the stories are beyond incomprehensible. It truly was tantamount to an urban warfare scene as many corners of the city spiraled out of control. And, this set the stage for the crack epidemic that brought already hard-hit areas to an extraordinarily low ebb.

I remember, in the 80s, when the devastation still had not been completely fixed. The city used to actually put up window barricades made of metal with window scenes painted on them to make it appear (from the highway) that the building was not a burned out shell and to attempt to prevent access to the buildings.

[Rachael84]

Originally Posted by bmwguydc

This was a very bad era for the city as a whole, but The Bronx was destroyed in so many respects. I was not alive when it was occurring, but I know people who were teaching in the South Bronx and Harlem during this era, and the stories are beyond incomprehensible. It truly was tantamount to an urban warfare scene as many corners of the city spiraled out of control. And, this set the stage for the crack epidemic that brought already hard-hit areas to an extraordinarily low ebb.

I remember, in the 80s, when the devastation still had not been completely fixed. The city used to actually put up window barricades made of metal with window scenes painted on them to make it appear (from the highway) that the building was not a burned out shell and to attempt to prevent access to the buildings.

I sometimes try to imagine what teaching in my area would have been like 20 years ago. Not where I live, I mean where I teach now. It must have been a night and day difference. Kids whose parents were never around, tons of crack babies, etc. What were some of the stories that those teachers shared?

[bmwguydc]

Originally Posted by Rachael84

I sometimes try to imagine what teaching in my area would have been like 20 years ago. Not where I live, I mean where I teach now. It must have been a night and day difference. Kids whose parents were never around, tons of crack babies, etc. What were some of the stories that those teachers shared?

Yes, the crack era caused many of those neighborhoods to go from bad to worse. Some of the stories that I recall were parents who had/died from AIDS, grandmothers raising grandchildren because the parents were nowhere to be found, neighborhoods where the students reported criminal activity and asking questions about whether or not gunshots were normal where the teachers lived.

Then, some were totally tragic, cases of abuse and neglect that overwhelmed the system. Middle school children being sexually active, with prostitute parents, some of who had their own children by the time they were fourteen, was not unknown as well. The cycle of poverty and destruction of the crack era, piggybacking on the burn-out era, really created a lost generation in the devastated neighborhoods, where crime was not a random interval thing, but something one was confronted with on a daily basis.

Many children had to go home and watch television as they could not play outside, except during school hours, for their own safety, those were kids whose parent/guardian was around and cared. Sometimes, some of the teachers would witness the aftermath of crimes on their way to/from work, but the teachers were largely respected, though some did nothing more than babysit the children during the day as there was little in the way of learning that went on. Teachers, as now, had to kick in their own money to make the classroom work, and those who could afford it actually spent their own money monthly for supplies and enrichment materials.

And, then there were the depressing cases, those bright students lost to the lifestyle, turning to crime, some of whom were witnessed dealing drugs, hanging out with a bad crowd, and squandering their measured potential. I think in many ways those were the hardest for those I know who taught there, because those kids had the potential and the drive, yet the cycle of the neighborhood drew them in like a siren's song. The allure of the easy money paved the way to a road to another lost soul, though in the teen years the students did not realize that. Perhaps some did before they wound up in prison, dead, or with a disease, but those cases made the educators I know stand up and really push their current students to achieve and get out of the cycle with some very good successes.

There were good parents/guardians kept hostage by their neighborhoods, even then, but they were not as numerous as now. Add to that the burned out buildings, crack houses, drug dealers, prostitutes, etc. and you had children knowing far more than many adults did in the same era. It was truly a tragic picture, that seems to be getting much better. It's not perfect, but it's a good start, and the mantle has been taken up by this generation's educators to build upon the successes and make more of them.

I truly respect all of the work that each of the teachers in the system brings to the classroom, and highly regard all of the teachers who post on this board for working in such a noble profession. The responsibility to educate is one thing, but to give inspiration, hope, and guidance to all of the city's youth, be they in the best schools or the worst. People don't go into education for the money, but there are so many more rewards than the salary since you have the power to change lives!

[Moderate Guy]

Originally Posted by bmwguydc

I truly respect all of the work that each of the teachers in the system brings to the classroom, and highly regard all of the teachers who post on this board for working in such a noble profession. The responsibility to educate is one thing, but to give inspiration, hope, and guidance to all of the city's youth, be they in the best schools or the worst. People don't go into education for the money, but there are so many more rewards than the salary since you have the power to change lives!

Excellent analysis. And I second the "hats off" to those brave, conscientous, caring teachers like Rachael, Jax, Squeezebbox, et al.

[Rachael84]

Thanks guys. Bmwguy, a lot of those things you talk about still happen today. My fiance taught in one of the top 10 most dangerous high schools in the city and had a student shot. He constantly had bright kids getting arrested, getting into fights, etc. For me, even though i'm elementary, the kids tell me horrible stories that no kids should witness. I'll never forget one of my students (who is also my student this year, since I moved up a grade) telling me that she saw a family friend get shot and how she described the scene to me. It was terrible. I really feel for these kids who have to witness these things. I like providing a safe haven for these kids who come in with so many problems with their home lives. It isn't easy one bit, but it's rewarding.

My fiance's father taught in the south Bronx and Brooklyn in the 70s. He said a student went to stab him and he ducked out of the way just in time. He would have been sent to the hospital, or god forbid, killed (he said he probably would have been). He said it was a complete war zone.

[bmwguydc]

Originally Posted by Rachael84

Thanks guys. Bmwguy, a lot of those things you talk about still happen today. My fiance taught in one of the top 10 most dangerous high schools in the city and had a student shot. He constantly had bright kids getting arrested, getting into fights, etc. For me, even though i'm elementary, the kids tell me horrible stories that no kids should witness. I'll never forget one of my students (who is also my student this year, since I moved up a grade) telling me that she saw a family friend get shot and how she described the scene to me. It was terrible. I really feel for these kids who have to witness these things. I like providing a safe haven for these kids who come in with so many problems with their home lives. It isn't easy one bit, but it's rewarding.

My fiance's father taught in the south Bronx and Brooklyn in the 70s. He said a student went to stab him and he ducked out of the way just in time. He would have been sent to the hospital, or god forbid, killed (he said he probably would have been). He said it was a complete war zone.

Unfortunately, those things do still occur, but perhaps not as prevalent. I know teachers who were at the elementary levels in that era. They would not set foot near a high school for their own safety, and even some middle schools were suspect, since the middle school kids used to beat up the elementary kids, even if they were on an after school trip or outing in the area.