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In a life and death situation, in the middle of gridlock traffic when no one can move out of the way even if they tried, it is a 10 minute difference to Bellevue from there.
Most neighborhoods/cities don't have numerous hospitals a half mile from each other lets be real.
Most neighborhoods/cities don't have numerous hospitals a half mile from each other lets be real.
True dat!
Sadly New Yorkers have become used to having "neighborhood" hospitals and that is going to change both here and elsewhere.
The new paradigm of healthcare in the USA is to keep persons out of hospitals. Such places are to be used for serious events such as major surgery or illness. Once you reach a certain level of recovery you'll either go home, to rehab or wherever, but you aren't going to be lying around in hospital bed for weeks on end. We already have seen this for years when it comes to childbirth. Uncomplicated vaginal delivery often has mother and baby discharged < 24 or 36 hours after birth. In most our moms or grandmothers day it was a week or longer.
Problem for NYC is that you still have a large population of under insured, uninsured, indigent, and others who still rely heavily on ERs for medical care. Lacking primary care physicians or access to same these persons turn to local hospitals for healthcare. That is not an efficient nor effective model of care.
Sadly New Yorkers have become used to having "neighborhood" hospitals and that is going to change both here and elsewhere.
The new paradigm of healthcare in the USA is to keep persons out of hospitals. Such places are to be used for serious events such as major surgery or illness. Once you reach a certain level of recovery you'll either go home, to rehab or wherever, but you aren't going to be lying around in hospital bed for weeks on end. We already have seen this for years when it comes to childbirth. Uncomplicated vaginal delivery often has mother and baby discharged < 24 or 36 hours after birth. In most our moms or grandmothers day it was a week or longer.
Problem for NYC is that you still have a large population of under insured, uninsured, indigent, and others who still rely heavily on ERs for medical care. Lacking primary care physicians or access to same these persons turn to local hospitals for healthcare. That is not an efficient nor effective model of care.
Speaking of elsewhere. I transplanted out of NYC down to south of DC. From a NYrs POV I'm in a rural area and not just a suburb. Stating that, I have seven hospitals that are 10-40 minutes driving from my home, two clinics, four multiple doctor GP practices and a emergency orthopedic clinic. A 23 hour visit is considered outpatient at a hospital. Thus is those 23 hours they can pretty much figure out if it will be an admit or not. Those lying in beds for more than 72 hours are usually geriatrics. Thus since there are all fed by different counties they end up with more paying customers than not.
When a hospital gets closed (or near closure) in NYC (primarily in Manhattan), their balance sheet is reversed where there are more non-paying customers than paying. Most people would think the poor are causing this when in fact it's those who have jobs and a good enough income to live in Manhattan. Their priority is not to carry insurance or carry insurance under ACA with such a high deductible that a ER visit is not covered. This is usually the under 30 crowd. Now add to this that most ERs get filled late at night, there is no choice other than a hospital.
Head over to Brooklyn which also has a high concentration of people, as far as I know there hasn't been any closures and some have been expanded. Yet their balance sheets, even being non-profit, are strong enough to pay their bills. Compare the two boroughs and one can see where the problems exist.
Speaking of elsewhere. I transplanted out of NYC down to south of DC. From a NYrs POV I'm in a rural area and not just a suburb. Stating that, I have seven hospitals that are 10-40 minutes driving from my home, two clinics, four multiple doctor GP practices and a emergency orthopedic clinic. A 23 hour visit is considered outpatient at a hospital. Thus is those 23 hours they can pretty much figure out if it will be an admit or not. Those lying in beds for more than 72 hours are usually geriatrics. Thus since there are all fed by different counties they end up with more paying customers than not.
When a hospital gets closed (or near closure) in NYC (primarily in Manhattan), their balance sheet is reversed where there are more non-paying customers than paying. Most people would think the poor are causing this when in fact it's those who have jobs and a good enough income to live in Manhattan. Their priority is not to carry insurance or carry insurance under ACA with such a high deductible that a ER visit is not covered. This is usually the under 30 crowd. Now add to this that most ERs get filled late at night, there is no choice other than a hospital.
Head over to Brooklyn which also has a high concentration of people, as far as I know there hasn't been any closures and some have been expanded. Yet their balance sheets, even being non-profit, are strong enough to pay their bills. Compare the two boroughs and one can see where the problems exist.
The Catholic hospitals closed throughout the city, including in Queens. Come to think of it, Brooklyn too has had broke or closing hospitals. This isn't a Brooklyn vs Manhattan thing.
Speaking of elsewhere. I transplanted out of NYC down to south of DC. From a NYrs POV I'm in a rural area and not just a suburb. Stating that, I have seven hospitals that are 10-40 minutes driving from my home, two clinics, four multiple doctor GP practices and a emergency orthopedic clinic. A 23 hour visit is considered outpatient at a hospital. Thus is those 23 hours they can pretty much figure out if it will be an admit or not. Those lying in beds for more than 72 hours are usually geriatrics. Thus since there are all fed by different counties they end up with more paying customers than not.
When a hospital gets closed (or near closure) in NYC (primarily in Manhattan), their balance sheet is reversed where there are more non-paying customers than paying. Most people would think the poor are causing this when in fact it's those who have jobs and a good enough income to live in Manhattan. Their priority is not to carry insurance or carry insurance under ACA with such a high deductible that a ER visit is not covered. This is usually the under 30 crowd. Now add to this that most ERs get filled late at night, there is no choice other than a hospital.
Head over to Brooklyn which also has a high concentration of people, as far as I know there hasn't been any closures and some have been expanded. Yet their balance sheets, even being non-profit, are strong enough to pay their bills. Compare the two boroughs and one can see where the problems exist.
Brookdale University Hospital and Medical Center, Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center, Interfaith Medical Center, Wyckoff Heights Medical Center and University Hospital Brooklyn are all in deep financial distress, and really only being kept open by extensive NYS funding. That cannot go on and must come to an end, meaning sooner or later one or more will close. After being turned down by NYP, Mount Sinai, and NYU only Northwell (formerly North Shore - LIJ) answered the governor's call to enter into a plan/partnership to see what is to be done with the very sad situation of Brooklyn's hospitals. Northwell Health takes steps to bail out ailing Brooklyn hospitals - Modern Healthcare Modern Healthcare business news, research, data and events
The only hospital in Brooklyn really seeking to expand is Methodist.
Long story short for all the new wealth in Brooklyn those residents vastly prefer going across the river into Manhattan to the big teaching hospitals (NYU, NYP, Mount Sinai and Northwell), or out to Long Island for care. Lacking such well insured patients large numbers of Brooklyn hospitals rely heavily and or must serve the under or not insured and or those with low reimbursement rate health insurance and or government plans (Medicare/Medicaid).
As for the balance of your post, again you don't know what you are talking about.
Patients who are wealthy and or have "good" insurance in Manhattan in most all instances seek out care from the large university/medical school/teaching hospital networks; Mount Sinai, NYU, NYP, Northwell, Hospital for Special Surgery, etc.. This leaves both municipal hospitals and or those not part of such networks at a disadvantage.
Despite all the new wealth in the West Village, Chelsea, Greenwich Village, Tribeca, Soho, etc... many persons both gay and straight wouldn't set foot in the place. Saint Vincent's had a reputation as being a charity hospital/place of last resort. That designation is the last thing any place wants if they are seeking to attract "upscale" patients. In their last years a bulk of Saint V's care was largely made up of Medicare, Medicaid and other low reimbursement health insurance. They just couldn't make enough to keep the doors open. It didn't help matters the place was *VERY* poorly managed and that the nuns refused to let up on their mission; to provide care to whomever regardless of ability to pay. It was an open secret you could go to STV's and obtain care worth thousands then simply cry poor mouth/refuse to pay and that would often be that.
Further uptown on the tony UES Lenox Hill Hospital, the local place for the wealthy and famous wasn't doing well financially either. In fact they were going bankrupt at the same time as Saint Vincent's. That place going first drove LH into the arms of North Shore-LIJ who paid *CASH* for the purchase transaction.
As with so many things healthcare in NYS and NYC is made more difficult for hospitals by various state and city interference supposedly designed to insure access for all. What it often does is force places to provide care that they will see nil to no payment. The days of running a hospital via bake sales or charity events held by a group of nuns and or school kids is over.
The large teaching hospitals of NYC are very efficient and good at advertising and promotion. You cannot get away from adverts for Mount Sinai, MSK, NYU, NYP, Winthrop, Montefiore, Northwell. They are also good at fundraising, attracting millions if not billions from the very rich to vastly wealthy. The poorer hospitals in NYC just don't have that sort of clout.
Another thing; getting into a hospital other than via ER requires being a patient of a physician with admitting privileges. Finding such a doctor can be a tall order in many NYC communities; especially the poor or even middle class. More so if you require (or want) a top specialist in a certain field. Things become even more grim if you are on Medicare or worse Medicaid.
Brookdale University Hospital and Medical Center, Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center, Interfaith Medical Center, Wyckoff Heights Medical Center and University Hospital Brooklyn are all in deep financial distress, and really only being kept open by extensive NYS funding. That cannot go on and must come to an end, meaning sooner or later one or more will close. After being turned down by NYP, Mount Sinai, and NYU only Northwell (formerly North Shore - LIJ) answered the governor's call to enter into a plan/partnership to see what is to be done with the very sad situation of Brooklyn's hospitals. Northwell Health takes steps to bail out ailing Brooklyn hospitals - Modern Healthcare Modern Healthcare business news, research, data and events
The only hospital in Brooklyn really seeking to expand is Methodist.
Long story short for all the new wealth in Brooklyn those residents vastly prefer going across the river into Manhattan to the big teaching hospitals (NYU, NYP, Mount Sinai and Northwell), or out to Long Island for care. Lacking such well insured patients large numbers of Brooklyn hospitals rely heavily and or must serve the under or not insured and or those with low reimbursement rate health insurance and or government plans (Medicare/Medicaid).
As for the balance of your post, again you don't know what you are talking about.
Patients who are wealthy and or have "good" insurance in Manhattan in most all instances seek out care from the large university/medical school/teaching hospital networks; Mount Sinai, NYU, NYP, Northwell, Hospital for Special Surgery, etc.. This leaves both municipal hospitals and or those not part of such networks at a disadvantage.
Despite all the new wealth in the West Village, Chelsea, Greenwich Village, Tribeca, Soho, etc... many persons both gay and straight wouldn't set foot in the place. Saint Vincent's had a reputation as being a charity hospital/place of last resort. That designation is the last thing any place wants if they are seeking to attract "upscale" patients. In their last years a bulk of Saint V's care was largely made up of Medicare, Medicaid and other low reimbursement health insurance. They just couldn't make enough to keep the doors open. It didn't help matters the place was *VERY* poorly managed and that the nuns refused to let up on their mission; to provide care to whomever regardless of ability to pay. It was an open secret you could go to STV's and obtain care worth thousands then simply cry poor mouth/refuse to pay and that would often be that.
Further uptown on the tony UES Lenox Hill Hospital, the local place for the wealthy and famous wasn't doing well financially either. In fact they were going bankrupt at the same time as Saint Vincent's. That place going first drove LH into the arms of North Shore-LIJ who paid *CASH* for the purchase transaction.
As with so many things healthcare in NYS and NYC is made more difficult for hospitals by various state and city interference supposedly designed to insure access for all. What it often does is force places to provide care that they will see nil to no payment. The days of running a hospital via bake sales or charity events held by a group of nuns and or school kids is over.
The large teaching hospitals of NYC are very efficient and good at advertising and promotion. You cannot get away from adverts for Mount Sinai, MSK, NYU, NYP, Winthrop, Montefiore, Northwell. They are also good at fundraising, attracting millions if not billions from the very rich to vastly wealthy. The poorer hospitals in NYC just don't have that sort of clout.
Another thing; getting into a hospital other than via ER requires being a patient of a physician with admitting privileges. Finding such a doctor can be a tall order in many NYC communities; especially the poor or even middle class. More so if you require (or want) a top specialist in a certain field. Things become even more grim if you are on Medicare or worse Medicaid.
BugsyPal, yes he was wrong and yes hospital those hospital closures in Brooklyn have been all over the news. But there was no reason to be so nasty to him. You could have just posted the links as proof of the hospital closures in Brooklyn. Granted in some of my post I could have used better wording myself, and I admit that.
But when someone is factually wrong, all you have to do is supply the correct information. No need to attack someone personally.
Brookdale University Hospital and Medical Center, Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center, Interfaith Medical Center, Wyckoff Heights Medical Center and University Hospital Brooklyn are all in deep financial distress, and really only being kept open by extensive NYS funding. That cannot go on and must come to an end, meaning sooner or later one or more will close. After being turned down by NYP, Mount Sinai, and NYU only Northwell (formerly North Shore - LIJ) answered the governor's call to enter into a plan/partnership to see what is to be done with the very sad situation of Brooklyn's hospitals. Northwell Health takes steps to bail out ailing Brooklyn hospitals - Modern Healthcare Modern Healthcare business news, research, data and events
The only hospital in Brooklyn really seeking to expand is Methodist.
Long story short for all the new wealth in Brooklyn those residents vastly prefer going across the river into Manhattan to the big teaching hospitals (NYU, NYP, Mount Sinai and Northwell), or out to Long Island for care. Lacking such well insured patients large numbers of Brooklyn hospitals rely heavily and or must serve the under or not insured and or those with low reimbursement rate health insurance and or government plans (Medicare/Medicaid).
As for the balance of your post, again you don't know what you are talking about.
Patients who are wealthy and or have "good" insurance in Manhattan in most all instances seek out care from the large university/medical school/teaching hospital networks; Mount Sinai, NYU, NYP, Northwell, Hospital for Special Surgery, etc.. This leaves both municipal hospitals and or those not part of such networks at a disadvantage.
Despite all the new wealth in the West Village, Chelsea, Greenwich Village, Tribeca, Soho, etc... many persons both gay and straight wouldn't set foot in the place. Saint Vincent's had a reputation as being a charity hospital/place of last resort. That designation is the last thing any place wants if they are seeking to attract "upscale" patients. In their last years a bulk of Saint V's care was largely made up of Medicare, Medicaid and other low reimbursement health insurance. They just couldn't make enough to keep the doors open. It didn't help matters the place was *VERY* poorly managed and that the nuns refused to let up on their mission; to provide care to whomever regardless of ability to pay. It was an open secret you could go to STV's and obtain care worth thousands then simply cry poor mouth/refuse to pay and that would often be that.
Further uptown on the tony UES Lenox Hill Hospital, the local place for the wealthy and famous wasn't doing well financially either. In fact they were going bankrupt at the same time as Saint Vincent's. That place going first drove LH into the arms of North Shore-LIJ who paid *CASH* for the purchase transaction.
As with so many things healthcare in NYS and NYC is made more difficult for hospitals by various state and city interference supposedly designed to insure access for all. What it often does is force places to provide care that they will see nil to no payment. The days of running a hospital via bake sales or charity events held by a group of nuns and or school kids is over.
The large teaching hospitals of NYC are very efficient and good at advertising and promotion. You cannot get away from adverts for Mount Sinai, MSK, NYU, NYP, Winthrop, Montefiore, Northwell. They are also good at fundraising, attracting millions if not billions from the very rich to vastly wealthy. The poorer hospitals in NYC just don't have that sort of clout.
Another thing; getting into a hospital other than via ER requires being a patient of a physician with admitting privileges. Finding such a doctor can be a tall order in many NYC communities; especially the poor or even middle class. More so if you require (or want) a top specialist in a certain field. Things become even more grim if you are on Medicare or worse Medicaid.
Well then I'm in error as I don't indepthly read NY newspapers (or the DC Metro area either in my case) as you do. All the hospitals I visited relatives in along the Kings Highway corridor, Boro Park and Brighton Beach are all still there. O well then NYC has a problem and needs a paradigm repair rather quickly.
Thanks for the update and thanks for another reason I never want to move back to NYC ever again.
Brookdale University Hospital and Medical Center, Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center, Interfaith Medical Center, Wyckoff Heights Medical Center and University Hospital Brooklyn are all in deep financial distress, and really only being kept open by extensive NYS funding. That cannot go on and must come to an end, meaning sooner or later one or more will close. After being turned down by NYP, Mount Sinai, and NYU only Northwell (formerly North Shore - LIJ) answered the governor's call to enter into a plan/partnership to see what is to be done with the very sad situation of Brooklyn's hospitals. Northwell Health takes steps to bail out ailing Brooklyn hospitals - Modern Healthcare Modern Healthcare business news, research, data and events
The only hospital in Brooklyn really seeking to expand is Methodist.
Long story short for all the new wealth in Brooklyn those residents vastly prefer going across the river into Manhattan to the big teaching hospitals (NYU, NYP, Mount Sinai and Northwell), or out to Long Island for care. Lacking such well insured patients large numbers of Brooklyn hospitals rely heavily and or must serve the under or not insured and or those with low reimbursement rate health insurance and or government plans (Medicare/Medicaid).
As for the balance of your post, again you don't know what you are talking about.
Patients who are wealthy and or have "good" insurance in Manhattan in most all instances seek out care from the large university/medical school/teaching hospital networks; Mount Sinai, NYU, NYP, Northwell, Hospital for Special Surgery, etc.. This leaves both municipal hospitals and or those not part of such networks at a disadvantage.
Despite all the new wealth in the West Village, Chelsea, Greenwich Village, Tribeca, Soho, etc... many persons both gay and straight wouldn't set foot in the place. Saint Vincent's had a reputation as being a charity hospital/place of last resort. That designation is the last thing any place wants if they are seeking to attract "upscale" patients. In their last years a bulk of Saint V's care was largely made up of Medicare, Medicaid and other low reimbursement health insurance. They just couldn't make enough to keep the doors open. It didn't help matters the place was *VERY* poorly managed and that the nuns refused to let up on their mission; to provide care to whomever regardless of ability to pay. It was an open secret you could go to STV's and obtain care worth thousands then simply cry poor mouth/refuse to pay and that would often be that.
Further uptown on the tony UES Lenox Hill Hospital, the local place for the wealthy and famous wasn't doing well financially either. In fact they were going bankrupt at the same time as Saint Vincent's. That place going first drove LH into the arms of North Shore-LIJ who paid *CASH* for the purchase transaction.
As with so many things healthcare in NYS and NYC is made more difficult for hospitals by various state and city interference supposedly designed to insure access for all. What it often does is force places to provide care that they will see nil to no payment. The days of running a hospital via bake sales or charity events held by a group of nuns and or school kids is over.
The large teaching hospitals of NYC are very efficient and good at advertising and promotion. You cannot get away from adverts for Mount Sinai, MSK, NYU, NYP, Winthrop, Montefiore, Northwell. They are also good at fundraising, attracting millions if not billions from the very rich to vastly wealthy. The poorer hospitals in NYC just don't have that sort of clout.
Another thing; getting into a hospital other than via ER requires being a patient of a physician with admitting privileges. Finding such a doctor can be a tall order in many NYC communities; especially the poor or even middle class. More so if you require (or want) a top specialist in a certain field. Things become even more grim if you are on Medicare or worse Medicaid.
Any doctor can refer someone to a specialist or a clinic at a hospital. Middle class and poor people who need to be hospitalized have NO PROBLEMS being hospitalized.
The teaching hospitals train their doctors and their residents not on their rich patients, but on their POOR medicaid and medicare patients. In fact the teaching hospitals you mention routinely advertise their student and resident clinics for medical and dental services.
Again wealthy teaching hospitals are not offering these services to be nice. Their students and residents learn how to practice medicine off learning on poor patients/clients on medicaid and medicare and all of this is done under the supervision of professors. And it is an important revenue source for the hospitals as it helps pay for the education of doctors, dentists, and nurses (many of these teaching hospitals have nursing programs too, and obviously dental programs).
But yes the wealthy teaching hospitals get huge donations from their wealthy patients and neighborhood residents.
BugsyPal, yes he was wrong and yes hospital those hospital closures in Brooklyn have been all over the news. But there was no reason to be so nasty to him. You could have just posted the links as proof of the hospital closures in Brooklyn. Granted in some of my post I could have used better wording myself, and I admit that.
But when someone is factually wrong, all you have to do is supply the correct information. No need to attack someone personally.
Thanks for the comment. You are correct that he could have stated much less to make his point. But people like him(her) is why people outside of NYC believe strongly the stereotype that all NYrs are nasty and rude (or as we say down south "rough around the edges"). IMPOV most people have mellowed out over the past few decades and people with his attitude of having to jam information down one's throat are dying off in NYC. IMPOV he's just another armchair warrior who thinks about what he can't control rather than what he can.
Thanks for the comment. You are correct that he could have stated much less to make his point. But people like him(her) is why people outside of NYC believe strongly the stereotype that all NYrs are nasty and rude (or as we say down south "rough around the edges"). IMPOV most people have mellowed out over the past few decades and people with his attitude of having to jam information down one's throat are dying off in NYC. IMPOV he's just another armchair warrior who thinks about what he can't control rather than what he can.
???
I think his nastiness was warranted.
It literally takes a few seconds to google some basic information and people still fail to do that. They then post blatantly wrong information. Is it so difficult to corroborate your information. At the very least from a very broad perspective?
If I go on here and claim 2+2=5 everyday, people will think I'm a moron and laugh.
If I do the same posting blatantly false facts and "opinions", it's not the same?
This isn't just a phenomenon on the web but in general day to day life. People regurgitate incorrect information. It has probably always been this way but in an age where we have so much information literally at our fingertips, is it so difficult to corroborate information?
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