Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
With so little commercial on EE, I have to wonder what the zoning is. I bet it's not zoned for ground floor commercial on the avenue, but the space the Gristede's is in was somehow grandfathered.
There is plenty enough commercial space on East End Avenue. Most if not all on the west side and from 81st to about 84th. Even then we are speaking of ground floor retail in older buildings.
Thing about EEA is you have newer buildings that do not have any ground commercial space. If you "walk" via Google Street View above you can see where the lines of older tenement/walk-up buildings was broken for new construction (high rises), residential. You also have several schools on EEA and obviously those properties do not have commercial space.
EEA has more commercial space than Park Avenue, that is for certain.
Usually it is found one or two avenues are more commercial with the others being residential or a mix.
Fifth Avenue (above 59th Street), Park Avenue (ditto), CPW (pretty much the same), and East End all have little to no commercial. OTHO York, Madison, Lexington, and Columbus Avenues along with Broadway are packed with retail.
Manhattan as a whole has never been a supermarket friendly place. Normally you've got stores crammed into various ill suited ground floor spaces that they try to make work. When I first started going into and eventually moved to the City from SI was shocked and quite frankly not impressed with what they called supermarkets. Out on the Rock we had and still have huge places, here you've got weird layouts and aisles crowded together.
There are a few pre-war tenements that have ground floor retail, include the Gristede's building. None of the post wars have it. What does this say to me? At some point, maybe in the 50's-60's timeframe, someone decided to change the zoning of the area to eliminate ground floor retail. The older building are grandfather in. But as they get replaced, the new building can't put in retail.
I doubt this was driven by the real estate interests at the time. Retail is valuable, in many case more valuable than residential space at the ground floor. Generally developers wnt to build retail space, especially bigger spaces that national credit tenants like.
I don't feel like digging into the zoning for the are, but I have a feeling that's why there some, but very little retail there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal
There is plenty enough commercial space on East End Avenue. Most if not all on the west side and from 81st to about 84th. Even then we are speaking of ground floor retail in older buildings.
Thing about EEA is you have newer buildings that do not have any ground commercial space. If you "walk" via Google Street View above you can see where the lines of older tenement/walk-up buildings was broken for new construction (high rises), residential. You also have several schools on EEA and obviously those properties do not have commercial space.
EEA has more commercial space than Park Avenue, that is for certain.
Usually it is found one or two avenues are more commercial with the others being residential or a mix.
Fifth Avenue (above 59th Street), Park Avenue (ditto), CPW (pretty much the same), and East End all have little to no commercial. OTHO York, Madison, Lexington, and Columbus Avenues along with Broadway are packed with retail.
Manhattan as a whole has never been a supermarket friendly place. Normally you've got stores crammed into various ill suited ground floor spaces that they try to make work. When I first started going into and eventually moved to the City from SI was shocked and quite frankly not impressed with what they called supermarkets. Out on the Rock we had and still have huge places, here you've got weird layouts and aisles crowded together.
There are a few pre-war tenements that have ground floor retail, include the Gristede's building. None of the post wars have it. What does this say to me? At some point, maybe in the 50's-60's timeframe, someone decided to change the zoning of the area to eliminate ground floor retail. The older building are grandfather in. But as they get replaced, the new building can't put in retail.
I doubt this was driven by the real estate interests at the time. Retail is valuable, in many case more valuable than residential space at the ground floor. Generally developers wnt to build retail space, especially bigger spaces that national credit tenants like.
I don't feel like digging into the zoning for the are, but I have a feeling that's why there some, but very little retail there.
Aside from the new building going up on the former CUNY headquarters much of York Avenue has been the same for decades. Doubt changing in zoning had anything to do with retail or lack thereof.
The co-ops on the east side of EEA have no need for rental nor desire it as it would take away from what they already make good money from; ground floor residential with killer views of the East River and promenade.
Across the street on the west side of EEA the new buildings that replaced old tenements make very good use of their ground floor space as lobbies and other spaces residents prefer.
Another argument against large retail presence on EEA is that quite frankly there isn't anything over there besides residential, and some schools. In the past there have been low key commercial such as wine/liquor shops, bars, restaurants, dry cleaners, etc... things that fit and service those living on EEA and perhaps York, but no one is going to put a bank on EEA; there just isn't the foot traffic.
Persons living on EEA for ages like those on Beekman and Sutton Place to the south like things just the way they are; a peaceful, quiet and somewhat secluded residential area.
For ages Yorkville east of First Avenue and in some spots Second, remained sort of locked in time. No subway or other easy transit access besides buses made living over there not desirable for some. That is changing, and fast thanks to the SAS.
East End Avenue in the past had a bit more commercial, but many places have gone out of businesses or were forced out by rising rents.
Think about it; if you live on East End you'll either have to schelp over to DAG's on 80th and York, or walk up to Gristedes on 87th and York as the nearest supermarkets. That or the Associated on First and 81st.
The Duane Reade on 79th and York like many is a quasi supermarket. So if you need milk, coffee, or have the munchies late at night there is that option.
Before anyone starts, yes there is Fresh Direct, but that doesn't help if you say are cooking or baking and need an ingredient. Or you are out of milk, bread, coffee, cereal, snacks for the kids, etc.. Also many older and even middle aged to young persons living on 81st through say 85th purchase those pre-made meals from Gristede's as dinner or whatever.
My guess is this may not be totally the end; if and when the property is developed there is always the chance for commercial/retail on the ground level.
Oh god help the poor souls who can take a 20 min (do it on a Sat or Sun morning and you can probably knock it down to 10-15 min) bus ride to TJ's on Broadway or the 30 minute commute to WF on Columbus.
Oh god help the poor souls who can take a 20 min (do it on a Sat or Sun morning and you can probably knock it down to 10-15 min) bus ride to TJ's on Broadway or the 30 minute commute to WF on Columbus.
How do these poor souls manage to survive?
First of all persons living in that part of Yorkville *DO* make use of other options, now, past and future. Not everyone likes Gristedes regardless of how close.
You see persons carrying Fairway, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and other shopping bags; this long before the three even opened stores on the UES. People then and now also will stop at various supermarkets on their way to and from say the subway or whatever.
That being said again it is nice to have a supermarket on or near one's street if for nothing else when one has neither time nor will to walk several blocks, and or the odd emergency.
You just get back from trip and there is nothing in the house and it's late. Your husband just finished off the last of milk and you need for the kid's breakfast next day. The game is on in a few hours and you've just called up the gang for an impromptu get together.... And so it goes.
Finally there is a large number of seniors/older adults living over there who are mobility impaired and or otherwise cannot get to even the DAG on York and 80th.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
