CUNY Macaulay Honors College

[hailmerry]

"Yes, of course it's entirely true. There were Speech-Language Pathologists long before it was ever a college "major." You've got to understand that the diversification of fields in which one can earn a Bachelors degree in today's world of college and the university is a reflection of how students choose their schools. You are a perfect example. While a degree in Linguistics would render you qualified for a position as a Speech-Language Pathologist within a major healthcare organization, you have developed the notion that the only way to accomplish this goal is by majoring in it. So the colleges develop a "Speech-Language Pathology" program that probably mimics very closely the curriculum of a Linguistics program, with a few add-ons just to make it "specific" to SLP."

After re-reading a post by, who else, Castro, I feel I need to make it even more clear that in NO WAY WHATSOEVER does having a degree in linguistics qualify you to work as a speech pathologist, Im not even talking about ethically. I'm saying that Even if you have your undergrad in linguistics from Yale and Harvard and MIT, no one will give you a job. It would be illegal. I really am so surprised that someone would blatantly make up crap, then again, I don't use message boards often. The degree requirements for linguistics and speech couldn't be more different, in fact the only pure linguistics course we take is phonetics. Most schools won't admit you to a grad program if you don't have an undergrad degree in speech pathology, though a few do you end up having to take classes with college freshman to make up missed work. And you can't get a job without a masters.

It just really upsets me that people think would risk misinforming the public just to prove a point. What if a parent came to this message board and their child is 3 years old and hasn't said a word, and thought well maybe I'll just have that girl I know with a BA in linguistics take a look at him, and they do and of course have no idea what they're doing. It is very important to have qualified professionals in this field because oftentimes speech, language, feeding, and swallowing issues can be symptoms of larger disorders, even a brain tumor.

Castro, you seem to thrive on confronting other people, so I will not engage in debate with you but you seem to pride yourself on using objective data to support your claims, but in this case you have none whatsoever. please let this be your epiphany.

[Castro Viejo]

Originally Posted by hailmerry

After re-reading a post by, who else, Castro, I feel I need to make it even more clear that in NO WAY WHATSOEVER does having a degree in linguistics qualify you to work as a speech pathologist, Im not even talking about ethically.

Presuming you are a Speech-Language Pathologist, you'll note that your professional association, American Speech-Language-Hearing Association | ASHA, has published a website that details specifically no undergraduate degree requirement in SPL to sit for the certification examination. It also further notes that specifically no undergraduate degree requirement is required to enter a graduate program in SPL.

While it is true that a Masters degree is required to be licensed as in Speech-Language Pathology in most states, there is NO mention of the undergraduate degree requirements. Therefore, yes, it's true, you can have a degree in Linguistics as an undergraduate and still qualify for licensure.

Originally Posted by hailmerry

I'm saying that Even if you have your undergrad in linguistics from Yale and Harvard and MIT, no one will give you a job. It would be illegal. I really am so surprised that someone would blatantly make up crap, then again, I don't use message boards often.

And why not? Are you inferring that a Bachelors degree in Linguistics from Harvard, Yale, or MIT wouldn't qualify you for a graduate-level program in SPL? I'd beg to differ. Again, refer to your association's website.

Originally Posted by hailmerry

Most schools won't admit you to a grad program if you don't have an undergrad degree in speech pathology

Your statement is misleading and false. Your association's website makes no mention of the specific need for a degree in Speech-Language Pathology for admissions to a graduate program in SPL. You are wrong and, perhaps, you should review your certification requirements.

Originally Posted by hailmerry

It just really upsets me that people think would risk misinforming the public just to prove a point.

Yes, I feel the same way. So why mislead the public with your statement?

Again, there is no undrgraduate degree requirement for entry to a graduate level program in SPL nor is there an undergraduate degree requirement to sit for the PRAXIS examination for certification.

If you didn't catch the link, here it is again: American Speech-Language-Hearing Association | ASHA

Originally Posted by hailmerry

What if a parent came to this message board and their child is 3 years old and hasn't said a word, and thought well maybe I'll just have that girl I know with a BA in linguistics take a look at him, and they do and of course have no idea what they're doing.

That parent would be equally ridiculous to take the child to a Speech-Language Pathologist before taking him/her to a physician. Pediatric brain tumors are not common and there's nothing in the training of a SPL that would help him/her to distinguish whether a child's neurological issues are secondary to a brain tumor or other, entirely unrelated, issues. But way to go on playing on the fears of the public (or whomever is reading this thread) by insinuating that a SPL would be qualified to tell a parent whether or not their child has a brain tumor. If you truly believe that your license to practice should be revoked.

Originally Posted by hailmerry

Castro, you seem to thrive on confronting other people, so I will not engage in debate with you but you seem to pride yourself on using objective data to support your claims, but in this case you have none whatsoever. please let this be your epiphany.

Again, I submit to you as objective evidence.

Council on Academic Accreditation in Audiology and Speech-Language Pathology:

American Speech-Language-Hearing Association | ASHA
The U.S. Department of Labor's Burea of Labor Statistics website:

Speech-Language Pathologists

The University of the State of New York, Office of the Professions:

NYS Speech-Language Pathology & Audiology Education Law, Article 159

Please note, yet again, that there is NO specific undergraduate degree requirement for entry into a graduate program in SPL nor to be admitted for licensure in New York State as a SPL. Furthere there is NO specific undergraduate degree requirement to take the certification examination offered by the ASHA (the PRAXIS examination).

Have a good day.

[hailmerry]

I need to restate your own quote "While a degree in Linguistics would RENDER YOU QUALIFIED FOR A POSITION AS A SPEECH LANGUAGE PATHOLOGIST within a major healthcare organization"-- you never said IF YOU HAVE A MASTERS in SPEECH PATHOLOGY/COMMUNICATION DISORDERS! If you had said that, I would not have taken such an issue with you. In that vein any degree at the BA level would suffice simply because you would have completed the undergrad sLP courses as a grad student. The only reason that the PRAXIS and ASHA don't make undergrad degree requirements is because they are subsumed by the master's degree requirements, which changes in length depending on those courses.

However, I am really glad that you finally looked up information from a reliable website, ASHA is the gold standard. There is no way that you can really appreciate the requirements from looking at one website however. For example it says most states require a Masters to practice. Now, NY is one state that allows you to practice at the BA level IF you have completed an accreditied program in undergraduate “speech and language disabilities” and have your TSSLD ONLY if that degree is from NY, you have completed student teaching as an undergrad, and you have passed certain tests, and even then you can only practice 3-5 years and only within NY public schools. It's just very complicated and please don't pretend to understand all the rules, of course I myself don't, there's too many.

To repeat myself, Of course you can work as a speech pathologist if you have a masters in SLP, even if you have a different BA background. In order to gain admittance to those programs, however, MOST (not all) require that you have completed a list of prerequisite courses one would have completed if they'd enrolled in a speech pathology undergraduate program. You can also complete these courses as a non-degree "post" bac program, but these are not easy to come by. So, yes, you do not need a bachelor's in SLP per se but MOST schools require that you have completed the bulk of the courses in the major to apply. And the list of pre-requisite courses is extensive in most cases, and they are courses that are only offered at universities with speech pathology programs because they are so specific. These courses are required by ASHA, they are unavoidable.

I agree that undergad should be about broadening your horizons and the fact that SLP programs require you to take so many undergraduate (AND OR!) pre-requisite courses is a pain and keeps good people from entering the profession, but it is what it is.

Now to further complicate things anyone else who is interested, there are some graduate programs that will admit you without these courses as an MA student (as opposed to non-degree), and I can think of MGH Institute of Health Professions, Vanderbilt, NYU, maybe SUNY buffalo off of the top of my head, but it ends up taking an extra year or more to complete your degree because of the pre-req courses. So its not impossible, that's why I said MOST. But to a student who knows that they want to study SLP from the beginning, it doesn't make sense to me why you would go to that time and expense when you could have started as a freshman. If you take the courses as a grad student you'll be paying graduate tuition as opposed to undergrad for the same exact course.

Of course if you suspect your child has a brain tumor you would see a doctor! I NEVER would say take your child to an SLP, and I apologize if it was misinterpreted that way. The ONLY point that I was trying to make was that knowledge of linguistics does not SOLELY prepare you to face true language disorders, which can involve a host of medical issues (incl brain tumors, unfortunately). Licensed SLPS are in no way qualified to treat brain tumors (DUUUH) but they are trained to refer to MDs when they are suspicious or notice red flags for ANY potential health problem, of which language can be a symptom.

I never claimed to be a licensed SLP (read my earlier post), nor do I want to give medical advice. I am a student giving advice to another student. I just think it is ethically wrong to suggest that a linguistic background is similar to a background in speech pathology, that’s all I wanted to say. Neither a BA in speech nor a BA in linguistics prepares you to practice, you need a masters in SLP for that.

I regret getting involved in this flame war or whatever they're called, the only reason I bothered is because I really love this profession and I'm honestly trying to help clarify the coursework necessary. I know there are people like me (and the OP) who google this information and someone may have unknowingly been given bad advice. It is no easy thing to explain, that's why on other message boards about SLP half the posts are about how to complete the pre-req coursework. ASHA is a great organization though and any local university with an SLP program would be happy to answer questions far better than I can.

[caterpillar14]

i go to hunter college high school and i can tell you that the majority of my peers are incredibly brilliant. it was ranked the top public feeder school to top tier universities in the country. Ivy Leagues accept Hunter students with c. 95 averages precisely because Hunter is such a competitive and intellectually demanding school. Dartmouth, for example, typically accepts Hunter students with an average gpa of 93. It would be easy for Hunter students to achieve a 4.0 gpa at less challenging schools. You should think before you speak, or in this situation, type.

[patentcad]

Originally Posted by Castro Viejo

Is that how it reads on your diploma from CSI? If it does, then this is okay. If it doesn't, then this is misleading and somewhat fraudulent. Sorry, but this is the honest to God truth in resume writing.

A) 'honest to God truth' in resume writing? In the business world? I don't know what planet you live on. But that's another discussion.

B) Saying you attended a CUNY institution as a Macaulay Honors scholar when you actually did is neither misleading or 'fraudulent' by any stretch. If you're dopey enough to draw that conclusion I don't want to work for you anyway. I figure if you went to that college and graduated from that program, you put it on your resume. If you think that's misleading, don't hire me. I wouldn't worry.

[patentcad]

My daughter has been accepted to SUNY Binghamton's business program (5 year MBA program), UMass, Northeastern in Boston, and Macaulay @ Baruch. Applications pending to NYU, Fordham, Barnard.

My own feelings are this so far:

CUNY/Macaulay disadvantages:

CUNY has a mediocre reputation compared to private schools and SUNY Binghamton/Umass/NYU among many employers.

The Macaulay Honors Program has only been around 10 years, it is not widely recognized by
potential employers yet.

Recruiting @ Baruch College by potential employers is supposedly poor compared to schools like
SUNY Binghamton.

CUNY/Macaulay advantages:

The quality of the student body in the program is essentially Ivy League level, my sense from
reading the comments of graduates is that the education quality level there is high. Graduates
who post about their experience there seem to have been very satisfied with the program.

Being in NY City is a huge advantage from a business/internship/job/networking standpoint
and for many other reasons as well (compared to being in upstate NY or Massachusetts).

Graduate school admissions offices are well acquainted with Macaulay. If you graduate from
a Macaulay Honors CUNY program with a high GPA, my guess is you can gain entrance to
any graduate school program in the country.

I have read that CUNY alumni (particularly Baruch grads) are well situated in the
NY financial community. I think Baruch grads can network their way into a good city financial job.

90%+ of Macaulay graduates attend grad school. If you do that, the undergrad credentials
won’t matter too much on the resume, they’ll be looking for where you got the MBA from.
Another consideration is that by 2015, when my daughter graduates, the Macaulay program may
well have gotten more traction with employers.

Is CUNY/Macaulay as good as Harvard? No. Is a Harvard diploma worth $150K more than Macaulay if both parents and kids have to go into crushing debt for it? No.

The whole private education system in this country has devolved into a preposterous overpriced scam backed by government backed student loans that are a trillion dollar bubble waiting to burst. Some experts expect a 30% default rate on that debt, and I don't think that's alarmist at all. If you told Wall Street tomorrow that there was going to be a 30% charge off rate on a trillion bucks of credit card debt, the stock market would sell off 10%+ Monday. When I graduated from NYU in 1980, tuition there was going UP to $5,000 annually. Now tuition there is $40,000 per year (housing extra), which is 8x higher. Inflation over that 30 year term is more like 3x, so NYU tuition adjusted for inflation today would be less than $20,000. And that's why middle class families like us can't afford private schools anymore.

[patentcad]

Originally Posted by patentcad

I don't know what planet you live on.

I take it back. Sounds like you hail from the Academia Nebula which is a time/space warp unto itself.









Carry on.

[Raven11]

Originally Posted by holden125

This was actually brought up in a recent forum on CUNY generally:

[URL]http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-york-city/243599-cuny-s-reputable-6.html[/URL]


The relevant post from MattSiggs:

"I don't know if you're aware of this, but you should apply to the Macaulay Honors College. Although it's only about 10 years old, it's an extremely good program that's very exclusive. I'm in it at CSI, but for Computer Science, I would recommend City College. Google Macaulay Honors College, you won't be disappointed. If you make it, you're required to complete and internship and you will actually know your advisor on a first name basis, which is always a plus. They give you a lot- free laptop, free tuition, $7500 study grant, and perhaps the most important, priority registration. Definitely look into it if you have the grades.

Oh, but you have to pay for City's dorms. Hunter has free dorms for their Honors College students, so that might be a factor. Bear in mind Hunter's MHC is the toughest to get into, followed by Baruch.

I thought going in that the CUNYs would be a breeze, but I was surprised to find out how challenging they actually are. CUNYs are no joke."

Okay so I know I'm only 3 years to late but I hope you check this because I was curious as to if you apply and do not get accepted into the Macaulay Honors College do you still get the opportunity to get into the CUNY college of your choice? Or can you apply separately as a whole outside the Honors Program?

[durbano]

Hey, guys I am currently a student dorming in Macaulay Hunter. To clearify about 45 % Macaulay gradautes go on to a Ivy-League program, while the others immediately take up a job or take part in a fellowship. The amount of opportunities here are abundant. As a freshman Macaulay paid for my summer and winter classes, and even helped me land an internship in my field. I now currently conduct research in lab getting paid to study the effects on mold. As a pre-med student I feel that Macaulay has really given me the edge I need to stand out above the rest. The priority registration, the free-laptop, the personal advising, and opportunities fund provide endless opportunities. I now currently by the end of my Freshman year will have 67 credits. Bear in mind I matriculated with 9 credits. May I add most Macaulay students double major. My majors are Behavorial Neurobiology and Anthropology. Yes, most Macaulay students get accetped to top-tier schools and even Ivies, but decide not to go, because they cannot afford. When I applied for colleges I got into all the colleges I applied to including: Cornell, Northeastern, NYU, Syracuse, Stony, Bing, Hofstra, and Buffalo.