CUNY Macaulay Honors College (New York, Binghamton: middle-class, appointed, credit)

[Mary543]

Hey everyone,

I am a sophmore in highschool and plan on majoring in Speech and Language Pathology. I have been doing a lot of research on the CUNY Macaulay Honors Colleges, and was hoping I could get some imput on them. I am looking into 4 of the 7 (Queens, Hunter, Brooklyn, and Lehman) since those are the ones that have the Speech Language Pathologoy major.

First of all, what have you heard of the CUNY Macaulay Honors College? I know it's not easy to get into, but can't seem to find too much information on how reputable it is. Will it look good when I'm applying for my masters?

Also, of the four which are the hardest/easiest ones to get into?

I have read mixed things on the living situation. I have heard that there are new dorms for the Macaulay College, but I have also heard that only Hunter students can live there. And I've heard that students of the other schools live with the students attending the regular college? If someone could clear this up that would be great.

Lastly, I would like to hear my chances of getting in. Freshman year I ended up with a 3.6 GPA (not great, but I've brought it up a lot). This year I am hoping to end up with a 4.3 GPA. I have good extra curriculars (I am hoping to lead the club Project Interact next year), and I have done a lot of community service. Also, I have a quite successful website and forum.

I would probably apply early decision, would that affect my chances?

Would I have a better chance of getting into some of the CUNY Macaulay Honors schools compared to others?

If you can't answer all of these questions that's fine (I know I have a lot). Even if you can answer just one I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you so much!

[holden125]

This was actually brought up in a recent forum on CUNY generally:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-y...putable-6.html


The relevant post from MattSiggs:

"I don't know if you're aware of this, but you should apply to the Macaulay Honors College. Although it's only about 10 years old, it's an extremely good program that's very exclusive. I'm in it at CSI, but for Computer Science, I would recommend City College. Google Macaulay Honors College, you won't be disappointed. If you make it, you're required to complete and internship and you will actually know your advisor on a first name basis, which is always a plus. They give you a lot- free laptop, free tuition, $7500 study grant, and perhaps the most important, priority registration. Definitely look into it if you have the grades.

Oh, but you have to pay for City's dorms. Hunter has free dorms for their Honors College students, so that might be a factor. Bear in mind Hunter's MHC is the toughest to get into, followed by Baruch.

I thought going in that the CUNYs would be a breeze, but I was surprised to find out how challenging they actually are. CUNYs are no joke."

[Mary543]

Originally Posted by holden125

This was actually brought up in a recent forum on CUNY generally:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-y...putable-6.html


The relevant post from MattSiggs:

"I don't know if you're aware of this, but you should apply to the Macaulay Honors College. Although it's only about 10 years old, it's an extremely good program that's very exclusive. I'm in it at CSI, but for Computer Science, I would recommend City College. Google Macaulay Honors College, you won't be disappointed. If you make it, you're required to complete and internship and you will actually know your advisor on a first name basis, which is always a plus. They give you a lot- free laptop, free tuition, $7500 study grant, and perhaps the most important, priority registration. Definitely look into it if you have the grades.

Oh, but you have to pay for City's dorms. Hunter has free dorms for their Honors College students, so that might be a factor. Bear in mind Hunter's MHC is the toughest to get into, followed by Baruch.

I thought going in that the CUNYs would be a breeze, but I was surprised to find out how challenging they actually are. CUNYs are no joke."

Thank you for that information. Although that partially clears up the dorm situation, I'm still a bit confused. I understand that Hunter has free dorms, but what about the other schools? Are there no dorms available at all?

I have heard that Hunter is one of the more difficult to get into, but what about Lehman, Queens, and Brooklyn? Is the difficulty to get in them significantly different? Are they pretty much as reputable, or is there a huge difference between the schools?

Also, does anyone know what my chances are of getting accepted, and which ones I have the best chance of getting accepted into? I realize that I haven't taken the SATs yet so you can't give me a completely accurate prediction, but I still would like to hear your imput on what I have so far.

Is there anything else that I should do that could increase my chances (ex: taking courses at the college or something like that)?

Thank you!

[babadi]

As somebody who didn't go to CUNY, I don't have much to contribute about the specific program you're asking about. But as somebody who went to a public school (SUNY Binghamton) and who has a few years of work experience including hiring people, I can offer my input on how going to CUNY will "look," as you asked.

The thing about public schools -- especially here in NY where we don't have a Berkeley or a UCLA -- is that the quality of the student body varies tremendously. Most people, when meeting a Harvard grad, would have a preconceived notion of that person's intelligence. Similarly, most people, when meeting a Katherine Gibbs grad, may have a preconceived notion of that person's intelligence. But with CUNY, all bets are off. There are lots of people who can't afford or can't justify going into crushing debt to go away to a fancy private school. And at the same time, there are lots of lazy idiots who are lucky they got in anywhere. So people don't know what to think, and the onus is on you to prove that you're one of the smart ones.

So the key is to distinguish yourself. It sounds like you're already doing a good job of that in high school, and I'd definitely encourage you to continue doing so in college -- join the honors program, do research, write a thesis, get internships or jobs in your field of interest -- anything you can do to give yourself an edge and gain further exposure to your field of interest. As an employer, if I see you've done those things, I don't care if you want to clown college -- and while grad schools may care a bit more, I'm skeptical that it'd make much difference for a degree as practical as speech pathology.

Now, do I think you could probably get a better education at a better school? Yes. Is it worth $160,000 of debt? In my opinion, no. If you could get into Harvard or Stanford, it might be worth going there -- especially because those and other elite schools have seriously beefed up their financial aid for middle-class students recently to the point that it's almost actually affordable. But if not, CUNY will do fine -- just make good use of the time. Good luck!

[Mary543]

Thank you for this imput. I do completely agree. I have been thinking a lot about my options lately. The fact is I really don't want to go into $200,000 of debt. That won't exactly be easy to pay off, and I don't want to start off my adult life like that.

The problem for me is that I want to stay near home, but also want to get a good education. Since I know what I am going to major in, it definitely narrows down my opinions. All of the schools other than NYU (which I could not afford even if I did get in) seem to be tier 3 schools and below.

So that is why I am so interested in this CUNY Macaulay Honors College. Not only will I not go into debt, but I know that it is a highly competetive to get into. So I am assuming that it must offer in the very least a decent education. I have found online that the average gpa of the students who got in last year was a 93.8. If it is that competetive, I would think it must be a decent school but I guess you never know.

Here is another question. If I were to go to the CUNY Macaulay Honors College, what do I put down when I am applying to grad schools? Do I put that I attended "CUNY Macaulay Honors College" or for example "CUNY Macaulay Honors at CUNY Lehman". On the website they always refer to the CUNY Macaulay Honors College as if it is separate (since you take classes at all 7 of the participating CUNYs), but you have your "home base" at one of the schools. That part does confuse me a bit.

Thank you for the imput everyone! I really appreciate it.

[Castro Viejo]

Originally Posted by Mary543

So that is why I am so interested in this CUNY Macaulay Honors College. Not only will I not go into debt, but I know that it is a highly competetive to get into. So I am assuming that it must offer in the very least a decent education. I have found online that the average gpa of the students who got in last year was a 93.8. If it is that competetive, I would think it must be a decent school but I guess you never know.

Competitiveness is relative. A 93.8 average in the New York City public high school system can mean a lot of things, depending on the school. This of course assumes that the vast majority of applicants to the Honors College are from New York City.

I'm not questioning the value of an Honors College within the CUNY system or its affordability and relativel value, but picking a school is about more than just the education it will provide. Yes, that's definitely important. It's the foundation for your future. But the institution's reputation and name have to open doors for you. If no one has ever heard of the school, then it won't matter just how good of an education you received.

Employers, graduate schools, professional schools, and everyone you meet in the future will want to know where you went for college. It may be true that you were top-ranked at the CUNY program, but next to guys and gals from the Ivy League and well-regarded public and private schools, it'll pale in comparison.

Those fringe benefits -- the free laptop, the $7,500 "study" grant, the free housing, etc. -- are all marketing ploys to get you to buy into their program. In the long run, it's not worth it.

While you don't know me personally, consider what I've said carefully and review your options for college and financing for your education.

Originally Posted by Mary543

Here is another question. If I were to go to the CUNY Macaulay Honors College, what do I put down when I am applying to grad schools? Do I put that I attended "CUNY Macaulay Honors College" or for example "CUNY Macaulay Honors at CUNY Lehman". On the website they always refer to the CUNY Macaulay Honors College as if it is separate (since you take classes at all 7 of the participating CUNYs), but you have your "home base" at one of the schools. That part does confuse me a bit.

What you would write on your resume and on your applications will be the name of the institution that granted your degree, at the time it granted your degree generally. Because there is no separate degree-granting entity within the CUNY system called the "Macauly Honors College," your Bachelors degree will be from whatever campus you're considering: Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, Lehman, etc. To list your school as the "CUNY Macauly Honors College" would be misrepresenting the situation.

Under "Special Honors or Awards" or something, you may however list "Macauly Honors College."

[babadi]

I'm not questioning the value of an Honors College within the CUNY system or its affordability and relativel value, but picking a school is about more than just the education it will provide. Yes, that's definitely important. It's the foundation for your future. But the institution's reputation and name have to open doors for you. If no one has ever heard of the school, then it won't matter just how good of an education you received.

Employers, graduate schools, professional schools, and everyone you meet in the future will want to know where you went for college. It may be true that you were top-ranked at the CUNY program, but next to guys and gals from the Ivy League and well-regarded public and private schools, it'll pale in comparison.

I agree that name recognition has some value, and I've already said that I believe that a better school may indeed give a better education. Given the choice between Columbia and CUNY for the same money, Columbia wins every time. But I would dispute the idea that it's unconditionally worth paying hundreds of thousands of dollars you don't have. There have been studies done on whether going to an elite school pays off financially versus going to an average one, although I'm not aware of anybody having really answered that general question conclusively.

For my part, I got hired straight out of Binghamton by Goldman Sachs to work alongside people from Dartmouth, Penn, and MIT. I spent $40K and they spent $160K, and there we were in the same place. And as an employer, I've seen plenty of totally unremarkable resumes of Ivy Leaguers who think I should hire them for an IT job because they went to Columbia and majored in Africana Studies. The fact is, a smart and ambitious person is going to be successful no matter where they go to school.

It's true that going to a Harvard or a Yale can pay off in terms of connections, and I wouldn't fault somebody who's rich or who wanted to go into politics or investment banking for paying that kind of money. But this young lady wants to be a speech pathologist. That's a solid field with strong job growth, but she's not going to be rich, and paying off those loans would be a significant burden. I think the OP deserves credit for being realistic about that. And I just don't believe that where you went to school is going to make much difference in that sort of career.

[Mary543]

I appreciate all of your input. I do agree that as important as it is to get a good education, you have consider the opportunities that will arise afterwards. I realize that on the websites for the schools they are obviously going to want to make it sound as prestigious as possible in order to get you to apply. So I do have to wonder how accurate all of the information is. For instance, they talk about the internships that you will get and the career opportunites that will arise if you attend. I'm sure that some people will get great opportunies (as some people do from every school), but how many of those who graduate benefit to the extent that they "enter at the top of their fields".

Employers, graduate schools, professional schools, and everyone you meet in the future will want to know where you went for college. It may be true that you were top-ranked at the CUNY program, but next to guys and gals from the Ivy League and well-regarded public and private schools, it'll pale in comparison.

Is that completely true though? I realize that it will not compare to the Ivy Leagues or other top schools, but I have heard that it is thought of as better than the SUNYs (and some of the SUNYs are thought of as quite good schools). I guess I just wonder where I will stand if I were to graduate from an MHC Program in comparison to other schools. Also, I have read that the majority of the students that get into MHC (Hunter) get into NYU (and NYU is obviously a very competitve school). I don't know how true that is, but if it is at all true I would assume that some opportunities would arise as someone how graduated from there.

Something that I read said that you are able to take classes at any of the 7 participating CUNY schools. So would it even be completely accurate to say that you attended just one of the CUNY schools when you could very well be taking few classes there?

I am assuming that you are right about saying that you have to list the school that gave you your degree, so do you think that when apply to graduate school it will really be noted that I did not just go to the regular CUNY school, but the Macaulay Honors college?

One last question. I know that mainly instate residents attend. Will it help me that I am out of state (NJ), or would that hurt me?

Thank you for all of your help. I appreciate all of your input.

Originally Posted by babadi

I agree that name recognition has some value, and I've already said that I believe that a better school may indeed give a better education. Given the choice between Columbia and CUNY for the same money, Columbia wins every time. But I would dispute the idea that it's unconditionally worth paying hundreds of thousands of dollars you don't have. There have been studies done on whether going to an elite school pays off financially versus going to an average one, although I'm not aware of anybody having really answered that general question conclusively.

For my part, I got hired straight out of Binghamton by Goldman Sachs to work alongside people from Dartmouth, Penn, and MIT. I spent $40K and they spent $160K, and there we were in the same place. And as an employer, I've seen plenty of totally unremarkable resumes of Ivy Leaguers who think I should hire them for an IT job because they went to Columbia and majored in Africana Studies. The fact is, a smart and ambitious person is going to be successful no matter where they go to school.

It's true that going to a Harvard or a Yale can pay off in terms of connections, and I wouldn't fault somebody who's rich or who wanted to go into politics or investment banking for paying that kind of money. But this young lady wants to be a speech pathologist. That's a solid field with strong job growth, but she's not going to be rich, and paying off those loans would be a significant burden. I think the OP deserves credit for being realistic about that. And I just don't believe that where you went to school is going to make much difference in that sort of career.

Thank you for this information. I do agree with a lot that you said. If you have the money to go to a good private school, then good for you. And if I believed that I could get into Harvard or Yale, I would consider taking the loans out for the long run. But I am being realistic and trying to set real goals for myself. I don't believe I could get into an Ivy League (I know they are extremely competetive).

But I do want to get a good education. I am not trying to put down the CUNYs in general, but if I was not accepted into the honors program I wouldn't attend. I just feel like I could get into a better school than that.

With the Macaulay Honors College they make it sound as if you will get opportunities afterwards. Plus I know it is competitve so if I could get in I would like that I would be with other hard working students. I don't want to go to a school full of all slackers. That is another factor that I am taking into consideration. But I am considering all of my options and that's why I want to find out all of the information about this Program possible.

Thank you for all of your help everyone!

[Castro Viejo]

Originally Posted by babadi

There have been studies done on whether going to an elite school pays off financially versus going to an average one, although I'm not aware of anybody having really answered that general question conclusively.

I'd be interested in reading such a study. If you have the reference, please provide it. I, however, can't see how a well designed study could be implemented without a whole host of biases to throw the conclusions off base. From my standpoint, it's near impossible to do such a thing! I'm a pretty avid reader of the Chronicle of Higher Education and have read several opinion pieces on the subject, but have drawn my own conclusions from my experiences.

Originally Posted by babadi

For my part, I got hired straight out of Binghamton by Goldman Sachs to work alongside people from Dartmouth, Penn, and MIT. I spent $40K and they spent $160K, and there we were in the same place. And as an employer, I've seen plenty of totally unremarkable resumes of Ivy Leaguers who think I should hire them for an IT job because they went to Columbia and majored in Africana Studies. The fact is, a smart and ambitious person is going to be successful no matter where they go to school.

GS hires in several different areas. Some more competitive than others, to be honest. Not to split hairs with you, but how many of Goldman's traders and bankers are NOT Ivy League or elite school graduates? If there are any, they'd be certainly the black sheep of the bunch and not justification that mediocre schools can open doors to elite jobs and graduate/professional schools.

Originally Posted by babadi

It's true that going to a Harvard or a Yale can pay off in terms of connections, and I wouldn't fault somebody who's rich or who wanted to go into politics or investment banking for paying that kind of money. But this young lady wants to be a speech pathologist. That's a solid field with strong job growth, but she's not going to be rich, and paying off those loans would be a significant burden. I think the OP deserves credit for being realistic about that. And I just don't believe that where you went to school is going to make much difference in that sort of career.

Point taken. I agree with you. But what if the OP's aspirations were higher than being a hospital-employed Speech/Language Pathologist? What if the OP was looking to make a move into an adminstrative position? Or what if the OP decided to go to business school to get an MBA? Or go to medical school? It'd be less of an uphill climb with a well-regarded school's diploma on your resume.

I generally do agree with your assessment. Don't get me wrong. But the world as I've seen it through my years is less a meritocracy than one thinks, and most people have gotten plum jobs because of connections borne out of school or through his Alma Mater's alumni network.

[Castro Viejo]

Originally Posted by Mary543

For instance, they talk about the internships that you will get and the career opportunites that will arise if you attend. I'm sure that some people will get great opportunies (as some people do from every school), but how many of those who graduate benefit to the extent that they "enter at the top of their fields".

They hardly have a long enough track record for you to presume that internships an career opportunities will arise simply from having attended this Honors College. It's, again, another marketing gimmick.

Originally Posted by Mary543

Is that completely true though? I realize that it will not compare to the Ivy Leagues or other top schools, but I have heard that it is thought of as better than the SUNYs (and some of the SUNYs are thought of as quite good schools).

The SUNYs, in general, are run of the mill as far as state schools go. There are plenty of better state systems in this country: University of California (Berkeley and L.A.), University of Michigan (Ann Arbor), University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign), University of Wisconsin (Madison), University of Texas (Austin), etc.

Originally Posted by Mary543

I guess I just wonder where I will stand if I were to graduate from an MHC Program in comparison to other schools. Also, I have read that the majority of the students that get into MHC (Hunter) get into NYU (and NYU is obviously a very competitve school). I don't know how true that is, but if it is at all true I would assume that some opportunities would arise as someone how graduated from there.

I don't see how you've made this connection. If the students going to the MHC at Hunter College are as competitive as some students being admitted to NYU, why does that mean Hunter MHC graduates will have the same or similar career opportunities as NYU graduates? Getting a job after college is about your school's reputation amongst employers and the school's alumni network. Though NYU was a relative mediocre private school for a good part of its history, it has recently propelled itself to an elite circle of private universities in the country. And even while it was sort of mediocre, its graduates were still landing high-end positions and their students today are enjoying the benefits of that alumni network.

Hunter, on the other hand, was a formal "Normal School," a training center for the school teachers founded as a branch of City College. CCNY was a top flight school, but that was before the Open Admissions policy (around the early 1970s) of CUNY ruined it and the system as a whole. There was a point when kids going to NYU were the ones who couldn't get into CCNY.

Originally Posted by Mary543

Something that I read said that you are able to take classes at any of the 7 participating CUNY schools. So would it even be completely accurate to say that you attended just one of the CUNY schools when you could very well be taking few classes there?

Your school will be the campus that grants you your Bachelors degree. Plain and simple. When I was an undergrad, I took courses at the university's business school, but was enrolled at the Arts & Science college. That makes me an A&S grad and not a business school grad.

Originally Posted by Mary543

I am assuming that you are right about saying that you have to list the school that gave you your degree, so do you think that when apply to graduate school it will really be noted that I did not just go to the regular CUNY school, but the Macaulay Honors college?

It may be noted somewhere on your transcripts officially, and may even make an appearance on your diploma, but it doesn't really matter. The fact is most grad schools won't have the foggiest idea what the Macaulay Honors College is and it's significance.

Originally Posted by Mary543

One last question. I know that mainly instate residents attend. Will it help me that I am out of state (NJ), or would that hurt me?

Since CUNY is a public school its preference will be to select and admit New York State residents. It may be different for the Honors College, but I highly doubt that. If this program is as competitive as you say it is, and if you have the grades and the application to get into this program as an out of state applicant, that means you can probably get into a pretty good school. And being from New Jersey, Rutgers College at Rutgers-New Brunswick is an excellent state school. Certainly better than many, rather most, SUNY campuses in my opinion. That's Rutgers College and only Rutgers College in New Brunswick. The rest of the Rutgers colleges (the Newark College, etc.) are are pretty mediocre.